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Crackshot
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 197
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 9:36 am: | 
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Going to put up my little vertical antenna for my 2 meter radio this weekend.
My run length of coax will be atound 25 to 30 feet.
The radio manual shows that Belden 9913 is pretty good stuff for low loss.
I plan on using the RG8 foam or the RG 213.
Is the RG8 foam better for lower loss? Will this affect SWR? Antenna is 19 inches tall. |
Dx431
Senior Member
Username: Dx431
Post Number: 1194
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 11:37 am: |
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For that short of a run, you could get away with
RG8X (mini 8). |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4110
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 6:06 pm: |
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Correct for a short run rg-58 will work mini-8 is better because at 25 foot the loss will be under 2 db.
Not much beats lmr-400 for any longer runs. |
Little_john
New member
Username: Little_john
Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 4:21 pm: |
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WOW that's a real short antenna for a 2 meter base. I guess it won't have much gain at 19"
I was going to suggest 9913 fex or the LMR 400 |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 560
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 7:08 pm: |
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19" is a quarter wave at 2m and sometimes is a better choice than a longer antenna.
As I have stated before alway use the best coax you can afford. IT will cost you more in the long run if you use cheap coax. |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4117
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
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a RINGO-RANGER base antenna has 6 db gain and is about 10 foot tall .....
Several DIAMOND antenna clones are on the internet. I had a 18 foot tall one on 2 meters with 9 DB gain it worked VERY WELL $100.
ARROW makes a J-Pole it is VERY well made as are several other antennas they make but NOT cheep.
In my opinion the best amtemmas for 2 meters is a beam M2 makes very good ones but are again not cheep. Hygain cushcraft make several and again you have a choice .....
COAX again under 25 foot is not a problem ..... |
Crackshot
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 201
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 10:26 am: |
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Ok. I used some belden 8262 coax and getting a higher SWR than what I would like.I think coax is the culprit.
My run is appox 30 feet. Now I have a couple questions.
I am going to order some coax from copper. Is the RG8 mini better than the RG213?
Will the standard PL259 connector work with the larger size coax and all I need is the reducer size increased to accomodate the coax?
Please help as I need to place order tomorrow!
Thanks |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 564
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 10:20 am: |
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Hye Bruce,
Several years back I lived in a location from which I could not get out on 2m. I tried Ringo Rangers, Beams, A Diamond and even a homebrew antenna that was 5/4 waves up and 1/4 down - all of which failed to even give me a decent signal into the local repeater. I finally resorted to a 1/4 wave and was suddenly full quieting into the local repeater and could no even access repeaters 50 and 90 miles away.
Gop figure. |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4118
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
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On 2 meters 2 things matter HOW HIGH and GAIN ..... when it comes to antennas ..... |
Crackshot
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 202
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
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I need to know what is THE BEST coax for low SWR's on 2 meters. |
Dx431
Senior Member
Username: Dx431
Post Number: 1199
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 1:14 am: |
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As Tech237 stated above, buy the best coax you can afford. Oh, to answer your qusetion, 213 is better coax than 8x, but at a 25' run, it wont be noticeable. Which ever you choose, will work fine. As far as the pl connector, you will need the UG-176 reducer for the 8x.A standard pl259 will fit the 213. |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4119
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 4:18 am: |
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LMR-400 best coax for most of VHF/UHF |
Chad
Senior Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 1152
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 10:07 am: |
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The Arrow is the right price in my eye considering how well made it is. It's like 40 bucks.
Chad |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 567
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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Bruce,
Thats I what I was aying the Gain antennas did not work (in that location) but the lowly 1/4 wave did. |
Crackshot
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 203
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 9:20 am: |
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Argh. got it hooked up and had real crummy SWR's.
I think the old antenna is junk and was using the 8262 coax.
I found a 2 meter MFJ antenna from a ham here in town and some mini 8 coax. I am replacong it all this weekend. I like the mini 8 coax and seems tough. Eventually I would like to mount the 2 meter antenna on top of the beam and replace ALL my coax in mini 8. Is this mini 8 stuff good for a 80 to 100 foot run? |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 576
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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80 to 100 I would personally use a better coax then mini RG8. I use at leat 9913 or LMR-400. Less loss over that amount of distance - and remember that loss also affects the received signal, not just your transmitted signal.
Until moving my 2m antenna (Ringo at 45ft) used a 50ft length of 75 ohm cable tv coax - the big stuff that runs along the street and I had a measured 25w in at the shack and 24w at the antenna , despite two joins (one in the shack and one at the tower) where the cable became RG-213. These two join were for flexibility - hardline doesn't bend too well.
I will re-iterate what I stated earlier - to avoid future problems ALWAYS use the best coax that you can afford. Trust me if $$ allowed every cable I run would be hardline. |
Chad
Senior Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 1157
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:19 am: |
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no.... For 100 feet you would need a lower loss cable. Remember that 3dB loss equals half the power out the antenna, 6dB loss is 1/4 the power out the antenna. line loss at higher frequencies is an important thing. I'd buy coax just once and good stuff like BuryFlex, LMR400, etc just in case you want to go 70CM where it makes even a BIGGER difference.
Chad |
Crackshot
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 206
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 6:58 pm: |
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Thanks for all the help. I really do appreciate it. So I can use the mini 8 for my 30 foot run until spring without too much loss? I am going to restring ALL my coax going to ALL my antennas this spring and remount the 2 meter antenna a few feet above the beam. I an going to raise my beam another 6 feet or so.
This will give me time to round up some more guy wire and some new coax. I think I will go with that LMR400. If that stuff is stiff, how will it work with my beam and rotor? |
Chad
Senior Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 1159
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 7:48 pm: |
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Should be fine for your 30' run till spring. Don't stress it. As for the rotor then a short run of flexable cable won't make a difference for the rotating part. That's 27MHz right?
Chad |
Crackshot
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 207
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 8:05 pm: |
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Yes. 27MHz is correct. I think I will go with the 9913 on everything. Seems like good stuff and reasonable price.
Thanks Chad. |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 577
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 11:00 pm: |
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If you use the stiffer coax, you need a short length of 213 or RG8 up near the antenna to allow for the rotation. Thats why my hardline on 2m had the flexible ends and joins I mentioned. |
Chad
Senior Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 1163
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 9:49 am: |
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Also remember that higher frequency the more finicky it is to you doing a good job on your connectors. I noticed higher than I wanted reflected power at 440MHz. One connector was not PERFECT, fortunately it was one on the ground 
I don't use high end coax on 27Mhz, just up higher. Don't be afraid to save some money and use RG213 for 27 Meg and the better stuff for higher freq. I used the Copper SIW 213 for 27 Meg and Buryflex for the rest. VERY little difference between the BuryFlex and RG213 at 27 Meg..... BIG DIFFERENCE at 440 Meg.
Chad |
Captian_radio
Member
Username: Captian_radio
Post Number: 60
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 11:57 am: |
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crackshot try making a j pole antenna with copper pipe cheap and works very well, I run a short length of RG9B from my 2 meter beam and than the rest is Andrews 1/2 inch Heliax to the window with another short piece of RG9B to the IC 271a, works great for me.
bob CEF451 |
Crackshot
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 208
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 20, 2006 - 1:33 pm: |
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Wow. These are all great suggestions.
I think I will use the the RG213 for my 27MHz stuff. That's a great idea Chad!
I am on the lookout for a 6 meter radio next so will decide on 9913 for my 2 meter and 6 meter. |
Mikefromms
Advanced Member
Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 980
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 1:28 pm: |
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I'm running LMR-400 and LMR-240 for most of my applications. I use a shorter run of LMR-240 and a some 8X (cb) routed at the house to help with the looks and solve routing problems while the bigger coax (LMR-400) is outside. Works great.
The LMR-240 is slightly larger than RG-58 and has line loss similar to that of RG-213. A pretty good choice for lots of applications.
Mikefromms |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4331
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 2:26 pm: |
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LMR-400 here even at 440 mhz |
Slugo4449
Intermediate Member
Username: Slugo4449
Post Number: 155
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 10:09 pm: |
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I use LMR-400 on every band. I buy it by the 1000 ft spool so I might as well use it.
It is a bit of overkill for HF.
73, Marty |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 12850
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 25, 2007 - 11:41 pm: |
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If you run out of the LMR-400 check out the Altelicon CA-400 400 Series Cable and it takes a REGULAR PL-259 connector from Copper.
Exact Same Specifications, Quality & Performance as LMR-400 ONLY MUCH CHEAPER from Copper Electronics! 
H00-02006 Altelicon CA-400 400 Series Cable
$ .59
CA-400 Series Coax Cable
The CA-400 low loss cable is a high performance alternative to RG8/U, CommScope® WBC-400, Times Microwave Systems® LMR-400, Belden® 9914 / 9913 / 7810 and Andrew® CNT-400 coax cable.
Altelicon CA-400 is a UV resistant polyethylene lacketed high performance flexible Low Loss coaxial cable. This coaxial cable has become a "standard" of the outdoor wireless LAN and WLL industries. This lightweight cable has excellent low loss characteristics and a durable UV protected black polyethylene jacket. The Altelicon CA-400 features equal performance and mechanical characteristics to cables from CommScope®, Times Microwave Systems®, Belden and Andrew®.
Construction Specification (Layer - Material - Diameter)
Inner Conductor - Copper/Aluminum - 2.74mm / 0.108in
Dielectric - Physical Foam Polyethylene - 7.24mm / 0.285in
Outer Conductor - Bonded Aluminum Foil + Tinned Copper Braid - 8.13mm / 0.320in
Jacket - Black Polyethylene - 10.29mm / 0.405in
Electrical Characteristics
Capacitance : 77.1pF/m
Impedance : 50ohm
Velocity : 85%
Inner Conductor DC Resistance : 2.92(Ω/km)
Outer Conductor DC Resistance : 5.41(Ω/km)
Shielding Effectiveness : > 90dB
Cutoff Frequency : 16.2 GHz
Peak Power : 16KW
Mechanical and Environmental Characteristics
Min. Bend Radius : 51mm / 2.0in
Operating Temp. : -40°C to +80°C
Tensile Strength : 72.6kg / 160lb
Cable Weight : 0.099kg/m 0.068lb/ft
RoHS Compliant : Yes
Attenuation and Avg. Power (20°C)
(Frequency - Attenuation dB - Avg. Power)
30MHz - (2.2@100m / 0.7@100ft) - 3.30KW
50MHz - (2.9@100m / 0.9@100ft) - 2.60KW
150MHz - (5.0@100m / 1.5@100ft) - 1.50KW
220MHz - (6.10@100m / 1.86@100ft) - 1.20KW
450MHz - (8.9@100m / 2.7@100ft) - 0.83KW
900MHz - (12.8@100m / 3.9@100ft) - 0.58KW
1500MHz - (16.8@100m / 5.13@100ft) - 0.44KW
1800MHz - (18.6@100m / 5.67@100ft) - 0.40KW
2000MHz - (19.6@100m / 6.0@100ft) - 0.37KW
2500MHz - (22.2@100m / 6.8@100ft) - 0.33KW
5800MHz - (35.5@100m / 10.8@100ft) - 0.21KW
QUANTITY DISCOUNTS
500+ .55
Lon
Tech808
CEF#808/HAM#33
CVC#002
N9CEF
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Chad
Senior Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 1275
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 26, 2007 - 9:25 am: |
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Unfortunately copper started carrying this the DAY my backorder for BuryFlex came in or I would have jumped all over it. When the Buryflex runs out I plan to give it a shot!
Lon have you used any? Is it easy to work with? Does the jacket "creep around" like the 213?
Chad
CEF 433
HAM 212
not an ego thing, just keepin' the mods happy
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