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Message |
    
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:36 am: | 
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even if you techs have'nt brought one,i'am asking your professonal opinion.they are a 2 mosfet driving 12 mosfet.do you think that they could do 300-350 watts if not,how much do you think 505 |
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 71
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 9:59 am: |
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hello!anybody home!! a tech,or anybody |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 10334
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:35 am: |
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Wheelco505,
It would help to know the Number (like ERF-2030) and the Power Rating of the 2 MOSFET's driving the 12 and what is the Number and Power Rating of the 12 MOSFET's?
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF
CVC#2 |
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 79
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 12:24 pm: |
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tech 808, hello lon i found out that the 2x12 mosfet amp was rated at 30 watts a transitor.just thought you would like to know 505 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1866
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 12:06 am: |
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the amp he is speaking of is the
"palomar mega 300".
it is supposedly a 350 watt amp that uses 2 driving 12 mosfets. im going to guess that they are the ERF2030's as that would make sense.
here are the specs:
This is a 350 watt mobile, Palomar 300 amplfier. This amplifier provides the very best modulation of any amplifier we carry. With a deadkey of 5 watts and a swing of 350 watts. Very low amp draw. Can run off a ciggarete lighter plug!
- 14 Mosfett Transistors: 2 x 12.
- Maximum amp draw of only 25 amps
- AM/FM/CW/SSB
- Pre-amp to amplify receive
- On/Off Switch
- LED On/Off indicator light
i would be very interested to know more about this amp if you can find anything lon.
matt |
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 80
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 10:00 pm: |
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yeah me too!!but i can't get any tech too repond! i guess they are all busy,but that's kool.just would like to hear them say" I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT''just don't leave a guy hanging.them you have something to look forward too.i check this everyday and gets blanks.have a good day kid vee. 505 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1874
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 10:44 pm: |
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yeah, i agree wheelco.
the answers the techs give on here seem to be hurried and they wont go into detail, especially when it comes to mods.
i cant remember the last time a tech on here actually told someone exactly how to do a mod.
i do understand though, these guys actually make their living in this business and cant possibly have enough time to keep up with all the goings on around here.
i do think its a bit misleading to call the section, "ask the tech" since most of the time a tech never gets involved in the thread.
maybe they should start calling it the "ask the members" section, since thats really where the help comes from on this forum.
matt |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 10457
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
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Wheelco505,
#1 ~ You still have not posted WHAT 2 are Driving the 12 and what the 12 are.
#2 ~ I would not think they would be ERF-2030's unless they bought them from Magnum.
#3 ~ I personally DO NOT like to make a guess on the performance of any equipment that I have personally not used or know anything about.
#4 ~ It is very hard for anyone to answer a question when they do not have the fact's and have never used a piece of equipment or know the component's that are inside a piece of equipment that someone is talking about.
#5 ~ That is why you will never see me post that I know everything about anything.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF
CVC#2 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1880
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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lon, i think we were hoping you might have access to some literature that might not be on the net yet.
this amp seems pretty new to the market.
as for the ERF2030's only coming from magnum; that might be the case, but the ERF2030 is just a different brand name put on an IRF520 which is readily available from any electronics parts house for about 1.00 each.
i think there is a good chance that is what they are.
it seems to be the newest trend.
thanks for your reply,
matt |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 10462
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 6:58 am: |
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Here is all of the information I can find on the:
Palomar Mega 300s.
These are 350 watt mobile amplifiers.
These amplifiers provide the very best modulation of any amplifier we carry. With a deadkey of 5 watts and a swing of 350 watts. Very low amp draw. Can run off a ciggarete lighter plug!
- 14 Mosfett Transistors: 2 x 12.
- Maximum amp draw of only 25 amps
- AM/FM/CW/SSB
- Pre-amp to amplify receive
- On/Off Switch
- LED On/Off indicator light
*****************************
Personally for the price they have on them with an output of only 350 watts I would not waste my money.
And the part above that say's:
Can run off a ciggarete lighter plug! would make me run so fast in another direction you would see smoke flying from my shoes.
I personally am not going to plug anything with a 25 amp pull into a cigarette lighter to use.
Any moblie radio or amplifier should always be connected directly to the battery.
Personally I would highly Suggest / Recommend a Texas Star 500 from Copper.
The Texas Star 500 has MORE POWER for LESS MONEY and is a Proven Excellent Performing Amplifier. 
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF
CVC#2 |
Chad
Advanced Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 960
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 10:05 am: |
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Lon Sed....
"And the part above that say's:
Can run off a ciggarete lighter plug! would make me run so fast in another direction you would see smoke flying from my shoes. "
Bwa-hahahahahaha
I'd love to see that!
FYI if it made 350W max and had a 25A draw then it would be 116% efficient at 12V which is what you would probably have at your cig lighter after wire length loss.
So if they have made an energy machine I doubt that the first market would be an RF amp. More feds than the FCC would be interested in this, area 51 take note 
I smell bull feces.
Chad |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1884
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 6:45 pm: |
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i just think its a good idea to start making amps with a part that costs 1.00 and gives 30 watts, rather than costs 25.00 and gives 100 watts.
the site i found it on listed it for $150.00.
the TS500 costs double that.
i dont believe the 350 watt claim either, im just looking for a review.
if copper carries other palomar amps, i imagine they could start carrying this one.
just a thought, everyone likes new products and new ideas,
matt |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1886
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 6:59 pm: |
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found a pic of the inside of this amp.
the board is in fact labled for ERF2030's, but im not sure if the transistors in it are subs or not.
pis is too small.
here is a link to the pic,
http://www.amateurlinearamplifiers.com/productimages/megainside.jpg
matt |
Ferd_burfell
Junior Member
Username: Ferd_burfell
Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
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I only see 2 driving 4. |
Chad
Advanced Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 961
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
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Ferd... The TO92's you see are not the outputs, they are support components. The TO220 devices IRF,ERF, whatever's, are mounted on the other side of the board and butted up against the heatsink. If they were just sitting there the'd get mighty hot
Chad |
Bc910
Advanced Member
Username: Bc910
Post Number: 733
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 06, 2006 - 10:56 pm: |
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Yep, It does say 2030, and it does look like it is set up for 2-12 but Ferd is right, in that pic it only looks like 2-4
?
BC |
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 81
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 1:52 am: |
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hello 808, let me explain myself. 1 i didnt want a expert anser,just one with your knowlege on any 30 watt device.i was just trying to get a GENERAL IDEA of what you could expect from a set up like this.i did'nt want your anser witten in blood.just if this was true,an estimate of what to expect. before i start '" kicking a new idea out the window,i think about how radio has come.we use to have radios that had tubes and were big and bulky.now we have radios that we can listen to music on a radio the size of an ink pen.nobody thought that would be possible did they???cumputers use to be ten foot or better towers,now i have 2 desktops,and a laptop that i can take anywhere.(AND I SAID THAT I WOULD NEVER OWN ONE)times change.you guy's must don't have son's that have car amps that are 500 to 1000 watts or better.they have there own competion boxes that sound awsome!!they have remotes so they can stand back a distance and they battle like some of us do with our amps.i was always wondering when somebody would try 10 meter or other wise would try it with mosfet.why not??techno is always changing.and the first ones who makes a prototype, are always treated like crackpots until it's profected.then the product takes off,and everybody has one.one day mosfet my phase out round transsitors.like kid v said, would be nice if we could get the same thing in watts,for a lower cost to make and sell.as for the plug into the lighter thing,please!!we all know a sales pitch when we see it,on the box it'll probably say:RECOMMEND THAT YOU INSTALL DIRECTLY TO BATTERY.just like that certain antenna company that everyboby knows who makes certain claims,it's a sales pitch.and it has'nt stopped there sales,no matter how we complain.in this radio thing,we are ALWAY'S LOOKING for something new and inproved,and i was hoping mosfet was it you guys have a good evening 505 |
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 82
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 2:03 am: |
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anyway for 149.00 (ive tossed away more on crazy stuff)i"am going to try one,and if nobody minds i"ll post what i find on product review,if that's a problem,i"ll e-mail everybody on this forum "mosfet polomar 350" and let you know. 505 |
Chad
Advanced Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 964
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 07, 2006 - 9:31 am: |
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Nah my kid doesn't have big car amps... I do!
Mosfets can be a pain to bias and match at AF frequencies, their biasing is VERY important and when not properly biased they run-away and blow up.
That being said I get a tad nervous when seeing 12 low powered devices ganged up to work in tandem at RF Freqs knowing that they all have a bit different spec. Real high power mosfets aren't cheap like IRF520's or ERF2030's. BUT beings that RF transistors are going up in price daily they do seem to be a viable option for a cost conscious design as long as the engineering is solid and tolerances are paid attention to.
2 other designs I would like to see come into the Amateur amplifier arena are Dual Darlington Designs such as used in High current "Cheater" amps for car audio and PWM amps. DD amps can run at insanely low impedances and are VERY stable. They can be current hogs but are virtually indestructible. There needs the invention of dual Darlington transistors though intended for RF apps, again not cheap in the near future due to R&D expense.
PWM amps or "class D" amps are making Waves in the Pro Audio and Car Audio arena right now. They are light weight and VERY efficient. What we (RF guys) suffer from now is poor efficiency IMHO. There are a couple designs out there for PWM RF amps but noting in the market yet that I know of. PWM amps chop the signal up and vary the duration of the turn on time of the output device. By doing so the transistor is either on or off, this allows it to run in it's most efficient mode, transistors are not that efficient when used in a varying state and approach their maximum efficiency when wide open, it makes sense if you think about it.
In order to amplify 28MHz using a PWM amp the switching frequency needs to be quite high like probably in the hundreds of MHz. Finding devices that can operate at this frequency is not tough but finding ones that can switch that much current that fast is going to be a battle. PWM audio amps were plagued later in their life by output filter failure. The output filter filters out the switching frequency and leaves you with a smooth output. After a while these devices would drift out of tolerance and de-tune themselves, this caused the amp to have lowered output, filter freq going thru, or all out failure due to the feedback network fighting itself.
Lately this has not been a problem and many acts are touring with PWM amps and saving TONS of money on truck space and fuel costs. An amp that used to weigh 100Lbs can now weigh a mere 25Lbs. The old AB design used to be about 60% efficient if you were lucky, PWM approaches 90% efficiency or above. This also saves weight in power distribution and wiring hassles. When I worked in broadcast more I had heard of PWM Final stages, I never really asked or investigated though, I guess I should have.
Adopting PWM technology in the Amateur RF amplifier world would provide us with the ability to get insane power outputs. Imagine actual power outputs approaching what you are putting into it. You have a 20A power supply? NO PROBLEM! You can now push an good 200W up the stick and breathe easy! This would also help with wire sizing and battery count (or stress) SSB work on one of these would be awesome if the filtering were set up so they did not act like a class C amp. You could reach the legal limit of Ham radio using 150A at 12V, or better yet 15A at 120V. and that’s with an 83% efficiency. No more dedicated 220V outlets in the shack for one amplifier!!! Imagine the possibilities!
Ask your kids if any of their mondo car amps are Class D…….
Chad |
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 83
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 08, 2006 - 2:45 am: |
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my son is touring now(summer time now,you know they contest all summer)I've seen some awsome stuff they pump up,mind blowing!!i'am glad somebody else knows about it,i'am inpressed!!he's in "the sandpile right now,he just left south carolina.from there he's going to cal.i was hoping that push to talk radio technogly would move on in a better direction i think the time is right for a pioneer to take us in upward,until then we can still dream!!i will let you know if the mosfet amp is a bust. 505 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1897
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 2:35 am: |
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nice lesson chad!
very informative, and i cant wait for you to invent one. LOL
very good point about what kind of abuse the MOSFETs can or cant take.
this may be the big hurdle in the design.
i want to see if one of the comp amp guys makes one.
wheelco505, i say, "go for it!"
i will be very interested to see how it works.
i would take chad's advice though, and make sure the SWR is VERY low into and out of the amp.
good luck,
matt |
Chad
Advanced Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 970
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 09, 2006 - 10:01 pm: |
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Wheelco, what type of touring is your son into? and PLEASE DO tell us about the amp, it is really perking my intrest!
Chad |
Torkrench
Junior Member
Username: Torkrench
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2006 - 5:24 am: |
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I personally have the Palomar Hornet 4 transistor MOSFET box and run it from time to time when I want a CLEAN signal on the base. I have tested several Transistor bassed linears and tube based linears on this station, and this little box is by far the cleanest of any I run. It runs with a pretty high dead key(might be able to turn the radio down more, but the box seems to be handling it fine. With the 4 mosfet transistors, it puts out just under 100 watts, so I would assume that with 3 times as many, it would do close to three times the power, then being driven by 2 maybe more... So the 350 might not be too far off. I can also say that this little box I have draws almost no power at all. It almost doesn't even show up on the meter on my power supply. Somwhere around 5-7 amps!!! It has 14 gauge wire coming out of it right from the factory even! talk about low power consumtion... I plan on getting one of the larger ones as well just to test in the future. As it was stated earlier, we've all spent more money on worse things |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1975
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:21 pm: |
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cool torkrench!
by 100 watts, do you mean RMS or PEP?
if PEP, what is the dead key out of the amp?
do you know if the MOSFETS in the hornet are the ERF2030's?
thanks for the info!
matt |
Wheelco505
Member
Username: Wheelco505
Post Number: 87
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:24 pm: |
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hey kid! sorry took so long to get back to you!my computer is on the blink.so while the boss is away,i'am being sneaky,i got the 350 and i'am testing it now,so far driving it with 1 watt i get 200 watt dead key(they do key high like torkwench said)and swing 300. and you don't get all that heat like pills.i will try 2watt and 2 and a half and etc ete and let you know got to go now!! |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1999
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 21, 2006 - 11:07 pm: |
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right on wheelco!!!
did you get it from the site i was referring to earlier?
also, if your deadkey is 1 watt, what is the PEP coming out of the radio?
do you have an ammeter to tell how many amps it is drawing on dead key and swing?
again thanks for the review. i think i want one!
maybe we can get copper to start carrying these.
(hint hint mods)
matt |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 10893
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 12:27 am: |
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Kid_vicious,
If you are talking about the ERF-2030 just CLICK on the link below.
E20-00000 ERF-2030 Transistor
Hope this help's,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF
CVC#2 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 2002
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:43 pm: |
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no, not the ERF transistors; the amp.
the palomar mosfet 350.
it certainly looks as though this is going to be the wave of the near future, what with the increased efficiancy, and the rising price of pills.
i sure would rather buy one from copper than anywhere else.
matt |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 10909
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 6:17 pm: |
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Kid_vicious,
You might want to e-mail the Forummaster at:
forummaster@copperelectronics.com
Since he is the owner of Copper Electronics the decision to carry new products would be up to him.
Hope this help's,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9CEF
CVC#2 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 2004
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:43 pm: |
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done and done!
thanks lon,
matt |
Lonestarbandit
Junior Member
Username: Lonestarbandit
Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 7:41 pm: |
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please kid can we have some good pics??????? i too want one and would buy from copper if they had it....... could you also email me where you got if from @lonestarbandit@hotmail.com to see if ur place is better than mine? thanks! |
Lonestarbandit
Member
Username: Lonestarbandit
Post Number: 51
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, December 08, 2006 - 10:37 am: |
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im a fool i was up late. that post was intended for wheelco 505. sorry kid vicious. call it late night insomnia!
73s |
