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Rbeswick62
Junior Member
Username: Rbeswick62
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 10:53 pm: | 
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I would like a detailed step by step Amp tuning Lesson. Like set your 1) Set SWR 2) adjust ?
Possibly what to look for.
Don't quite understand the input adjustment on my KLV1000p...
If you like start with the radio setup.
Really looking to learn proper set up to save the amp (not over load it)
Any info on how each adjustment affects the radio or the amp. I'll say hurt me with brutal info, I'll research what I can not understand or ask for clarification.
Thanx everybody in advance. |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 2975
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 4:31 pm: |
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1st thing to do is get your antenna, coax & SWR's set to where you'd like 'em. with NO accessories in line, you should be able to get SWR's to well under 1.5:1, hopefully 1.2 or 1.3:1 or better across 40 channels, or where you plan to operate. tube amps are a bit more forgiving then solid state, & true, while the loss at 1.5:1 is minimal, do it right & get the antenna tuned to where the manufacturer suggests it'll tune, you'll help to take excess heat, & possibly any RFI issues out of the equation. also, follow 808/833's ground suggestions-always a good idea for safety as well as rfi.
never add a substantial amplifier inline til you're sure all else is good. if it's not right & the amp doesn't work right, you'll have a heckuva a time troubleshooting. go step by step.
after you put the amp inline, with it OFF, check SWR's again. they should stay the SAME! should they increase a lot, check everything out til they stay the same.
to set up ANY amp, you must know & understand what to expect from it. the kl100p uses 4 el509/519's, no driver stage, & requires about 40-60 watts carrier & 125 watts PEP to fully drive it. the el509/519's used in the kl amps are 'modern' 6k/6j/8950-type sweep tubes. the originals were designed as TV sweep tubes & not for transmitting, but actually were fairly inexpensive, easy to replace & made decent output power for xmitters....back in the 60's. the el's were designed with transmitting in mind, but are virtual copies of the 60's tubes. they comfortably make about 50-60 watts each, so you should be able to see about 175- 250 watts key, & somewhere from 500-800 watts PEP. RMitaly says 1400 watts PEP....i spoke with a tech at svetlana in california a year or 2 ago regarding those tubes in a yaesu fl2100. he said they ain't doin' 1400 watts PEP, so forget about it. 500 or 600 PEP is more realistic. anymore all but guarantees everybody in the neighborhood knows when you're on the air. PEP aside, you're aiming for for that 175-250 carrier.
the way to do that is...turn your mic gain to 'Ø', & your radio/drivers output to minimum-for a transistor amp. for tubes, set carrier at roughly 1/2 the input you expect amp to require, in this case, about 25 watts. set amp how instructions suggest for intial tuneup. follow plate/load/tune instructions for max output. with a bit of luck, you'll see a max carrier around 100 watts or so. make sure your SWR's are still under 2:1, then increase your drive to about 50 watts, & retune. you should be in the 200 watt range. if you're way too high, back down the drive til you're at that 200 watt level. should SWR's go way over 2 or even 3:1, try changing jumper cable lengths between 3-6-9 feet & see if any length drops SWR's back under 2:1. add some modulation til you see about 500, 600, 700 watts swing. watch for heat. while tubes will show more heat then transistors, too much heat will fry 'em.
you can increase the carrier to the amp, as well as modulation, & very well may see 400 or 500 watts carrier & 1200 or1400 watts PEP. but you'll be replacing tubes soon. i had an fl2100 bought new around 1975, used regularly at 200 key/600 PEP they lasted over 20 years. sold it & new owner did 400/1000+ & replaces tubes yearly. & he doesn't even use amp much because it wipes out 20 houses TV's in his neighborhood. i doubt he gets out any better at 1000 watts then he does at 500, but he loves to see the meter pegged.
there are more then a few regular users of that amp on this forum, so someone should give you an idea of what output they see. my #'s are reasonable #'s based on restraint & for longevity & cleanliness. setup procedures are basically the same for any type amp. |
Thehobo
Member
Username: Thehobo
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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ok, on my 4 tube klv with the russian selvetas in it does the following on my bird peak meter, about 25 watt drive from my 2995 rci gives me about 350 dk, the radio swings to about 180 and drives the amp to about 16oo swing!! its been doing this for over 5 years and the wattage hasnt lost any of its swing!! in checking with the neiborhood, i dont bother anything they have?? but my set up is well grounded in all respects!!
also i do use the low of the amp and it swings an easy 1000 which to me is good for ssb use when needed!! ok, on tuning the amp, the drive input should be adjusted so that theres max power and the swr between the radio and amp is at its lowest with the power at the max you can get?? ive noticed that the drive can be tuned and the indication of the dial in relation to the markings on the case will be able to move back and forth abit?? this is were i put an swr meter between the radio and amp and tune for highest power with the lowest swr between radio and amp?? this is getting to long winded, and im redoing myself?? lol.. hope this helps??
thehobo
269150 am
monitor ch |
Rbeswick62
Junior Member
Username: Rbeswick62
Post Number: 23
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 10:29 pm: |
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I have used tune & load to achieve the highest out put leaving the input dial at 5 (the mid point), Driving with 60~95 Watts I get 20 watt dead key swinging to 100 or so. SWR at 26.965 is 1:1, and 27.405 is 1.2:1... Not sure but the radio sets on top of the amp right now, this will change later to spread them apart. The readings are taken on AM in high, middle and low on the amp with no difference to the meters readings, however Qso's say the can tell something has changed when I go into the high range. Thanks for the input maby some of my findings will help you guys tell me what I have wrong. |
Thehobo
Member
Username: Thehobo
Post Number: 84
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 2:46 pm: |
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what radio are you using to drive the klv P model amp?? the p model should take about 15 to 20 watt dk from the radio, and then have the radio swing up to 100 to 150 watts, this way you will get the full potential of the amp!! if the radio your using wont go over 30 to for watt swing, your losing the benifit of the high drive amp witch the P model is!!,.. the klv 5 tuber is made for the smaller swing radios!! also on your drive input, while you audio with the amp on, try turning the input drive one way or another till it peaks?? probley will be closer to the low sife then the high?? enjoy..
thehobo
269150 am
monitor ch |
Rbeswick62
Junior Member
Username: Rbeswick62
Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 8:12 pm: |
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The Driving Radio is a Yeasu 897-D... 20 watts AM. 100 watts other modes.I have plenty of drive for the amp, not sure of the readings I getting. I'm thinking the reason such low readings are due to no modulation at time of testing. But I see other people deadkeys are much higher than what i'm seeing. |
Thehobo
Member
Username: Thehobo
Post Number: 86
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 8:32 am: |
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ok, when you key your radio into the amp, turn the radios power up till it shows about 200 watts dk on meter?? that should be about 20 watts from radio?? then if you have a 100 watt swing, you should see at least 700 watts on low and a 1000 on high?? this is assumming the amp has got 4 good tubes?? i see this when i use my 757gtx yazoo with my 4 tube klv!!if your radio wont go past the 20 watts am, what your getting is going to be it?? try ssb and see what the results are???
on am you have to swing from 20 watts to at least a 100 to make the amp preform like its suspose to!! hope this helps?? enjoy
thehobo
269150 am
monitor ch |
Rbeswick62
Junior Member
Username: Rbeswick62
Post Number: 25
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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Hobo, Yes You are right on the money . Changed a few settings in the radio to up my modulation from 20% up to 75 % then began to give it the old aaadioooo in the mike and up she swang 20 Watts DK on AM swinging to about 110 Watts, AS for SSB Pumped 80 Watts in and saw 200 DK and swinging to 1100 Watts ( Kinda hard to catch this one needle moves so fast) Still not quite clear as to what the Input dial does so I adjusted it for the lowest SWR. Is this used to control distortion coming in from the radio or to trim back the Watts from the radio ? |
Thehobo
Member
Username: Thehobo
Post Number: 87
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 8:05 am: |
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the drive input on the amp is used to match the radio to the amp in a strange sort of way?? something like a pie network??? also on ssb, you should not see a dk?? you mite have your mike gain up to high for ssb?? now with the 20 watt dk and swinging to 110 on the radio, what do you see from the amp as far as dk and swing?? oh yes, on your input drive, when you adjusted it for low swr, is that between the radio and amp?? hope all goes well, enjoy..
thehobo
269150 am
monitor ch |
Rbeswick62
Junior Member
Username: Rbeswick62
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 11:03 am: |
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Yes the SWR meter started out in between the amp and the radio thats why I thought I hurt the amp, But now I have put a meter there and one between the amp and the antenna seeing that the SWR meter inside the amp Can not even be Zeroed/Calibrated so that I can check my SWR's out of the amp. Will do some extesive readings to day and write them down to give you precise readings before the amp and after the amp. Along with drive factors from the radio and amp settings to see if I am in the ball park. Latter if nothing changes on the amp meter I would like to calibrate the amp meter so it gives a more acurate reading and so it can be calibrated. |
Thehobo
Member
Username: Thehobo
Post Number: 88
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
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ok, the swr meter in the amp has to have at least 300 watts dk for it to calibrate!! and trying to make the amp power meter read like your outboard meter is, will be somewhat hard to do, being as i dont think theres an adjustment for that meter?? mine have been somewhat close, like within a 100 watts one way or the other?? once you see were it reads in conjuction with your out board meter, you can use that for a referance point!! agin enjoy and dont look to finding things thats not there?? all things differ from day to day?? lol..
thehobo
269150 am
monitor ch |
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