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Message |
    
738
Member
Username: 738
Post Number: 65
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 4:04 pm: | 
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Getting back on 11 meters after some years off. I have always ran 5/8 Waves's (if I did not have a .64) in addition to a beam. This is the first time I have ever lived in an area with hills, and high winds. I have never seen hills like these here in the Ozarks! After reading up on the Top One, I was wondering how it would work versus a 5/8 in the hills? It would be nice to use one because I'm next to Tornado alley, and get some really bad weather here, plus it's cheaper and they don't pay well up here. The Top One would have less wind load, but it goes against everything I have ever learned, that a 1/4 wave could work better than a 5/8 Wave, but I can't argue with the reviews. I am mainly interested in SSB DX, so would one or the other work better for getting out of the hills with the mount at about 36'? Thanks a lot!
Robert
Stupid Dog
738
Berryville, AR |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1486
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 6:41 pm: |
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I live in PA. with surrounding mountains
and hills. I get better results off a 5/8
wave here. Have tried them both.  |
Dale
Intermediate Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 407
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:08 pm: |
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if your on top of the hill very top ya could easily get by with just the topone id think but on the other hand if ya lived at the bottom i think youd need the extra lenth of the 5/8 or.64 cause being down in the valley.this is just my opion and kinda makes sense 2 me coppers did a review on these antennas and they performed differently at different hights.if ya live below sea level a small beam maybe in the works |
1861
Intermediate Member
Username: 1861
Post Number: 495
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:56 pm: |
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I ALSO LIVE IN MOUNTAINS OF PA. VERY HIGH WINDS , I HAVE A TOP ONE AND A I MAX 2000 UP . THE TOP ONE IS REAL STABLE IN WIND , WHILE THE I MAX DOES CRAZY DANCES . LIKE ROAD WARRIOR , THE 5/8 DOES PERFORM BETTER . I USE TO LIVE IN THE OZARKS , THE WIND THERE ISN,T NEARLY AS BAD THERE AS HERE -- EXCEPT DURING A TORNADO , IN WHICH CASE YOU HAVE MORE TO WORRY ABOUT THAN AN ANTENNA . I WOULD GO WITH 5/8 IF YOU,RE JUST PUTTING UP ONE ANTENNA |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 1652
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
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i run a top one antenna and it used to be at about the height yours would be. 36'.
i love this antenna.
i cant say whether the 5/8 would be better as ive never run one here, im willing to bet that it picks up signals from a bit further, and puts out a bit bigger signal, but i can tell you that i have never felt "slighted" by its performance.
if i can hear ya, i can usually get back to ya', and thats barefoot.
i would say if the winds are going to be higher than 60mph, then the top one is your best bet.
matt |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 2891
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 8:50 am: |
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my 5/8 maco is again at 17' to the feed point. i don't seem to have any problem getting out local or DX. in fact, not really much if any difference from when it was at 34' to the feedpoint |
Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1490
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 12:33 pm: |
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When i had my Imax 2000 up. It improved
alittle on local and ALOT on Dx when placed at
36-38ft compared to lower heights.
Never really tested my current 5/8 wave
with 4 horz. 9ft radials at lower heights
compared to higher heights. It's at 45ft to
feedpoint and works very well for Dx and local.
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Road_warrior
Senior Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 1494
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 6:07 pm: |
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If you live down in a valley: Get whatever
antenna you use up as high as you can.
The higher the better.
If your on top of a mountain or hill over
looking everything. Lower heights would
be ok. But, don't go below 18ft to feedpoint.
Excluding the Top One which still works decent
below 18ft. |
Newoperator
Junior Member
Username: Newoperator
Post Number: 41
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:53 am: |
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i have mountaisn around me to and im getting the topone.Wouldnt the top one perform better in valley areas due to its radiating from the ground?
The taller the antenna when you got mountaisn all around isnt gonna help unless you can really clear those mountins.
My imax99 is 5 feet off the ground "temporary till i get my top one"And i can dx over the mountains all my dx comes in from the north west and south but i can never get east and i dont have mountians to the east all i have is a house and woods.
I do have the lake to my wes tho so i dont know if that helps but across the lake which is only about
1/2 a mile long is the mountains and i get over them fine i wonder how the top one will do being close to the water granted its not salt water but i have all that free space to the west before i hit the mountains.
382 - 123
Dont Sweat The Technique
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4450
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 6:16 am: |
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A 5/8 wave is the way to go 99% of the time.
My brother lives in the great salt lake valley and mountians at a distance dont realy effect skip that much.
On 6 since 66
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Wildrat
Senior Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:20 am: |
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Here on top of my hill in Clearwater we get some pretty good winds too. I have my I-Max at 68 feet to feed and it works really well. I have a 4 element beam that will go up one year, but I have been toying with the idea of going to one of the aluminum 5/8 wave antennas. My I-Max will be up there for quite sometime to come. I do like the Top-One though. My very first antenna was the Astroplane and it worked excellently. I was stationed in South Carolina, the antenna was up about 20 feet and I talked all over the United States, Canada, Greece, England, South Africa, and below the border and out on islands to the south. You know I might just put one up instead of the beam, maybe I'll just get another pole and put them all up, after all I do have that multi position MFJ antenna switch. I'd go with the Top One now that I think about it, and it also survived some horrific storms in South Carolina also.
WILDRAT
Mark
27.285MHZ
CEF674
CVC029
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Newoperator
Junior Member
Username: Newoperator
Post Number: 47
Registered: 5-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 2:02 pm: |
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yup thats the plan i hear alot people ohh you want the maco becuase it can handle more power etc.
I have never run more than 50w my entire life and i dont plan to run any more than that anyway.No offense but i feel amps are kinda like cheating.Radio and dxing is a challenge to me and using a amp is like using the juice lol.
382 - 123
Dont Sweat The Technique
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Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 711
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 4:59 pm: |
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Newoperator, I spoke to the issue of your AP in another thread. The problem with mountains and hills is getting your signal over the crest to continue along the earth to some far off point. An antenna like a Starduster or other 1/4 wave ground plans with very broad lobs and low TOA of max RF to the horizon tend to get more signal up at angles like mountains and hills can present if you are not real close.
A 1/2 wave has is bit more focused lobe with a lower TOA than the 1/4 wave. A 5/8 is a bit lower and even more focused to the horizon than the 1/2 wave, if it is not too high above ground. I have no idea what the magic height is for your work in the hills.
As you raise a 5/8 above earth higher and higher, say 40+ feet then they tend to start producing a higher maximum RF lobe that has a higher TOA. This may be why the 5/8 wavelength antenna seems in some cases to work well over hills and mountains while still maintaining a bit of low-angle lobe that is good for close in work. Problem is this lower lobe now shows a bit less effective RF than it did when the antenna was at a lower height. Even so it should work very nicely in both situations and maybe the difference is not even noticable.
This is why in the hills it might be recommended to get the 5/8 wave and longer antennas up very high so the higher TOA maximum lobe is produced and that gets you over the crest of hills or work a 1/4 wave antenna pretty close to the earth.
Whatever wavelength low angle antenna you have in the hills, if you don't get it at or near the right height to produce a high TOA lobe you will be more or less dead. I can't tell you where in height that point is, but it probably will be pretty obvious when your reach the right height. I don't think it will be like a light switch going off and on, but I think if you will consider what the guys say here in this thread it will bear out how the antennas has to work with hills as a problem.
The higher you raise any antenna the lower the TOA can be to some point. However doing so also produces other lobes and these too can impact on the best performance over hills to some far off point. If the antenna is on flat pastoral land this response is probably not so noticeable and higher is typically better, even if that only means fewer obstructions in the way. If you are in the mountains and hills this might not always be the case.
The AP is noted to produce a very low TOA and is not affected by the earth very much, maybe another reason they may not work so well in hilly or mountainous terrain. An issue of effectively raising the TOA of the AP is discussed in the Patent however. |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 713
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 5:15 pm: |
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Newoperator, you are right. If you can get your antenna to working DX you won't need much power. 35-50 watts should get you plenty of contacts. Even working a 12 watt CB should get you some contacts when DX really gets to working good in a year or two. |
Dx_freak
New member
Username: Dx_freak
Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:56 pm: |
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Here is what I can offer on this post. I just yesterday memorial day lowered my 58 ft tower to prepair for a new tower project. I removed me maco 5/8 GP and put up my IMAX 2000. I am on the top of a hill and in the city but the info should help. Here are my results. I have the tower 58 ft high and I cound run watts into the maco 5/8 and with a TS 400v with a modulator as driving the 400v, I was getting 550 watts out of a good transmitting and receiving maco. When I was done with the tower and the IMAX uptop same height, I am coming out with 450 watts through the IMAX. BUT the thing is is the modulation. I may have lost a few watts on transmit but the locals and the skip were really giving me great reports on the modulation and clearity of my transmitt and eve on the non power transmitting. I am getting heard better and futher with the IMAX go figure. I have a friend 45 miles from me. Before, I put 2 db on him with the non power maco 5/8 GP. I put 6 bd with the jucy jucie (power). Yesterday, I was doing 4 db barefoot and 9 db with the jucie when transmitting on the IMAX 2000 and he informend me that my modulation has also increased with or without the juice. Go figure. I, in my place of this metromess I live in, am doing better with this IMAX and at lower wattage. I am unsure if I want to put the 5/8 GP up on the new tower l this weekend on not. The improvment from the IMAX is mind blowing. That sums it up for me as for my own experiance. Mybe the 5/8 maco was choaking my transmit a bit and showing me extra watts in monkey watts??? Not sure but also I am not professional. Just giving a little info I just found out. Good luck on answers. I found mine in expectation of a new tower project trying to save time latter. Next month the imax 2000 comes down for the beems to go in its place.
DX freak
Mad Dog/Short bus operator/Puppet Master
Special for my agitators fan club, im calling myself Puppet Master. I have two puppets that love to hear me key up and they are my #1 and #2 puppets, LOL.
Richey
CEF#885
I can only do the best I can with what I got.
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Wildrat
Senior Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 1301
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 01, 2007 - 3:15 pm: |
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That sounds great DX freak. I know my IMax works well for me. I also am in town. Sometimes i think the antenna works to well. I get complaints from people 20-30 miles away that they can't talk when I'm on and that's barefoot. I have the feed at 68 feet which is one reason for it's working well. Most of those fellas North of me have their antennas about 10 feet off the ground. That's a little bit of an exaggeration, but I'm sure you all know what I mean.
WILDRAT
Mark
27.285MHZ
CEF674
CVC029
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Dale
Advanced Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 947
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 10:22 am: |
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i wish i could get my imax2k up 68ft @ feedpoint
but it would be laying on neighbors trailer
while its still on ground...lol
dale/a.k.a.hotrod
cef426
cvc#64
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Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 724
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 2:39 pm: |
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Wildrat do you have hills or mountains around you like 738 and Newoperator?
If so, then maybe that, more or less, confirms what I was saying about the higher angle max lobes that I have read are produced by these longer than 1/2 wave antennas as they get close to two wavelengths high.
What do you think? |
