| Author |
Message |
    
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 273
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 2:21 pm: | 
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Think the Holiday Gremlins have come to see me.
My mobile radio that I was having problems with has frustrated me to NO END so I won't even use it any more - SANTA AN S-9 PLEASE
Today during the CEF NET my SWR spiked for no apparent reason (yes I know there is one somewhere). I checked all connections. Climbed the tower and checked every inch of my coax, grounds, etc., etc. and can find nothing jumping out at me anyway. Was very windy while I was in Georgia (just got back early this AM). Noticed the antenna had spun around, tightened everything up and checked the SWR before the net and all was fine (maybe a loose connection at feed point (didn't check that yet).
Went ahead and made two more brackets for the antenna mast - it WON'T BE SPINNING ANY MORE...
Was using the dummy load checking things out and think I may have blown my KLV.
SWR's are still HI so no base and no mobile - hope to be back up next Sunday but will have to wait and see. Busy week ahead and no cash - story of my life....
This is why armatures like me shouldn't be allowed to play with this stuff.
Had a GREAT THANKSGIVING THOUGH and hope you all did as well.
Tim
CEF-634 |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 982
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 4:04 pm: |
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Nice talking to you on the Nets today.
Sorry to hear about your antenna or
whatever problem. Wishing you the best
of luck in getting things back in order!
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 274
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 6:20 pm: |
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Road_Warrior I only wish I could have had a longer time chatting.
OK, unhooked and checked EVERY connector. Put everything back together and I have nice low SWR's again
Channel 1 = 1.0:1
Channel 40 = 1.2:1
Turned on the KLV and and on Stand By the SWR holds - Kick it on to Ready and I get the following readings -
BETWEEN RADIO AND AMP
Channel 1 = 2.9:1
Channel 40 = 3.2:1
BETWEEN AMP AND ANTENNA
Well the AMP isn't working - It lights up, the Pre-Amp works GREAT, key the mic and the Big Fan sounds good but NOTHING is going to the meters except the radio - Can't use the SWR Meter on the AMP, NO TX light - AFRAID I made a $600.00 mistake.
At least I can still talk and will be in on next Sunday's Net. Hope conditions are favorable as I will have no help but was doing fine today barefoot so not to worried. Don't even have the cash to send it back to Copper right now so it is just sitting and looking pretty and making me feel PRETTY STUPID
Tim
CEF-634
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Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 375
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 6:23 pm: |
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Who put your coax connectors together Sinker?
I would ck them, start with the ones outside since it was windy. You may have strand of shield wiring shorting things out maybe. Could have just been waiting to cause problems,then again you might have something else bad. The problem with this stuff is that you don't know whats causing the problem till you find it.
Wildrat
CEF674 |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 275
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 7:49 pm: |
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Think I will repair the amp (maybe just a fuse or something I HOPE), sell it and get an X-Force 60012. I like the KLV and the SWR Meter on it is VERY NICE and seems to be VERY ACCURATE as well and I LOVE the Variable Pre Amplifier.
With the X-Force I can run it with any radio I have without having to back down the power or adjust knobs (I am a simple man and simple minded I guess), so I can run it with 4 watts or 100 watts.
Wildrat you may be very right as I did all the connectors myself, although I was very careful to make sure this wouldn't happen but I am no expert.
I had disconnected and reconnected all the coax cables and the numbers came right back in line - now they are high again. 1.8:1 to 2.4:1. Going to tear everything apart this week.
Was really hoping to get a read on my Saturn Turbo's Side Band today too - maybe next week.
Tim
CEF-634 |
Starface
Intermediate Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 342
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 11:17 pm: |
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Sinker isn't the KLV a replacement from copper?
And if so isn't it still under Warranty?
Hope you find the couse...
Did you check your coax switch boxes?
Just trying to help
Till next time
Starface CEF#476
Southeast Net Control
Auburndale,FL |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 378
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 9:12 am: |
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I don't think Copper is going to warranty a box that got sapped by high SWR. Is that KLV box a transistor box? If it is and you indeed did blow the trannies you could always change them yourself. You can get a matched quad at this on-line shop for around 89 I think it was. Ck them connectors, get a couple gator clips and hook them to the connector and wiggle the wire. I need to start building mine. That strand of wire stuff can get you in trouble. When I was 13 my Dad and I built some speaker boxes to put a pair of 6X9's in. We put them together and one of the boxes would not work. Oh I want to add that Dad worked the first computers in the Air Force and when he retired he worked Bio-Medical repair. What I am saying here is that it can happen to anyone. Anyway while I was at church Dad took the boxes apart abd there was a little strand of wire shorting the speaker. On another occasion we had a B-52 come in with gear problems. We worked that plane for a couple of days trying to figure out what was wrong, finally it took a magnifying glass to find the problem. Again a strand of wire from some repair job by someone sometime had fallen on to a cannon plug (connector) and was shorting between two pins. Don't be afraid to pull and wiggle your connections. If they come apart there was a problem anyway.Good Luck Sinker! Just remember you are learning by doing this! Even if it isn't fun.
Wildrat
P.S. I found a brand new weller soldering gun at a pawn shop this weekend for $5.31 including tax. Pawn shops are good places to find equipment. Guys borrow it from their boss and pawn it at the local pawn shop. I've gotten saws alls, freon leak testers and other things from pawn shops. They always have meters of some sort, I don't need another meter though. i am hoping my Dad will part with some of his test equip though when I go home for Christmas.
Wildrat |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 984
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
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Hope you get things figured out Sinker.
Hopefully it's only a fuse or something simple
with the Amp./ Good Luck!
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 381
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 2:45 pm: |
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Sinker I read your last post again, it doesn't sound like you zapped the xsistors, sounds like something else, i keep forgetting I'm assuming it's transistors, keep forgetting they still make tubes. Well anyway it doesn't sound like it's tubes either. Could be the problem, doesn't sound like it though. One of those Autek WM1 meters would have warned you of a problem before keying up. It gives you continuous SWR readings.
Well anyway let us know what you find!
Wildrat
CEF674 |
Kid_vicious
Advanced Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 893
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:53 am: |
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tim, i have to go home right now, but check back tomorrow evening and i'll post some things to check and some suggestions to get you back on the air without opening your wallet. (well, not much anyway)
matt |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 276
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 10:52 am: |
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UPDATE:
KLV = Found a Blown Fuse - hope this is all it is, will try and get one today.
SWR = Readings are still fluctuating - I don't get it. Must be a bad coax somewhere as Wildrat suspected. Been playing the jumper game and am now worse than when I started. Think I will have all new jumpers made for me. I can not afford them now so will have to wait till next month. Problem is the local guys do not solder their connectors so that means ordering and waiting. Guess I could make my own again, we'll see.
Will keep you all updated.
A BIG THANK YOU to those who sent me messages offering ideas and to those who posted here offering ideas and support - MUCH APPRECIATED.
FRUSTRATING VERY FRUSTRATING
Tim
CEF-634 |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 1972
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:45 pm: |
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bad jumpers, or any ends on coax, but ALSO make sure your connectors are screwed tightly into receptacles!!!!
haven't had this happen in a long time, but XL in mobile was picking up 'engine hum' noise. checked SWR's with box ON, & cal was WAY off & SWR's were OVER 3:1. also output from box was extremely LOW. went to back of truck & sure enough! the connector on jumper from radio to box had loosened up maybe 1/2 turn-enough for coax to be REAL LOOSE. tightened it up, 'buzz' went away & output is GOOD again.
1st time had that happen was when maco v5/8 came down in ice storm. after some thaw, straightened out the curved elements & put it back up. a couple days later SWR's went up-the connector had loosened up inside the coax seal, remove, retighten, replace & all was well there, too. |
Crackshot
Member
Username: Crackshot
Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 2:37 pm: |
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I fried a good linear by having a strand of wire cross center wire. POOF went the transistors. |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 994
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 7:21 pm: |
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Monitor your SWRS while having coax from antenna plugged straight into radio. |
Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 385
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 7:39 pm: |
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yep,yep
Make sure them little points on the male threads get into the recesses on the female threads before tightening. Take one jumper/coax at a time and ck it and putit back, then move to the next one. Notunless you don't confuse yourself with a pile of wire, or you could number or label each jumper etc. to make sure you get them all. I think that's what I will do now since one side effect of the krap I'm on has me jumping around and not staying focused on one thing at a time. Thats why my station is not up yet. I don't stay focused. Anyway don't try to talk till you figure out whats wrong. Pull on those wires, they should not come apart. A good solder joint will be stronger than the wire or splice for that matter. A B-52 got vandalized on the alert pad. Some wires got pulled out of a battery buss box and part of the investigation was too see what was stronger. It was a 16 ga. wire with a splice in it. The wire was put in a vise, then we started pulling, the wire broke, the splice did not. Don't expect this to be the case if you are using auto parts store splices and terminals. They will come apart looking at them. Go to the marine store or order offline from a airplane parts store. A good splice or terminal will be one piece all the way around, it will not have that split in them. They cost ya, but you get what you pay for. You the cheap ones on your wifes car etc. and the good ones on yours. I'm just teasing. Use the cheap ones on stuff that is not critical to mission readiness.
Now you know another side effect, I go on and on, and on.
Wildrat
CEF674 |
Yankee
Senior Member
Username: Yankee
Post Number: 1016
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 7:58 pm: |
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I like many others on the Copper Forum make my own jumpers, and I have a volt-ohm meter to test them after they are made. |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 277
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 10:35 pm: |
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OK
JUMPERS - seem to be good
COAX - Jumpers Check Out - Also Good From PolyPhaser to Antenna - From the PolyPhaser to the Switch Box is the Problem - Did not check the PolyPhaser maybe it is it - will check that tomorrow.
KLV - keeps blowing the rear fuse - I was reluctant to by this amp and wish I would have gone ahead and gone with the X-Force all though it too would have probably blown. Regardless this one is leaving and might be replaced with an X-Force not sure, just didn't use it enough to justify the cost.
Anyway - Back on the air - Barefoot and fancy free till I can afford a new helper but that's cool. May not even replace it as I did not use it much anyway.
Tim
CEF-634
Will be on this Sunday's CEF NET  |
Kid_vicious
Advanced Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 894
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 10:45 pm: |
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tim, after re-reading your initial post, and then finding out that you did find a blown fuse; i think i can help.
as for why the fuse blew; well that's not that uncommon for the KLV tube amps. i have read just as many problem stories as i have satisfied owners. this leads me to believe that the design of the amp is good, its on the assemble line where the problems start. it seems some of these amps are fine, and some are problematic. i believe that they get jumbled alot during shipping.
if it were my amp, i would remove the AC cord from the wall; discharge the caps with a screwdriver; remove the tubes, and use a small jewelers screwdriver to bend all the prongs on the tube sockets to assure a tight connection. then i would use a very bright flashlight to shine on all the PC boards, looking for small cracks. then i would look for dull, flaky looking solder connections, apply a very small ammount of flux, and reheat them.
then, if this happened again; i would buy a new set of tubes fom Svetlana. if it wasnt my problem, i'd have spare tubes when i needed them.
this is only what "I" would do. i do not recommend that anyone go poking around inside a tube amp without knowing that it is discharged and safe. (when i poke around; i use a chopstick)
so, i think that the amp is the problem. this is another reason i dont like to run a bunch of switchboxes, or try to have all my radios hooked up at once. if theres a problem; troubleshooting becomes a nightmare.
as for the SWR, with the amp not working properly, you cant trust any readings with it inline. take it out of line, run a radio to an SWR meter and hook the other end of the SWR meter to the antenna coax. what is your SWR on 1, 20, and 40? write these numbers down. you should try to keep the SWR the same as you add pieces of equipment inline. when you run across a piece that raises the SWR, then dont keep it inline unless you need it. i agree with running the SWR meter after the amp, but you should try running the station without all those switchboxes. you can only use one radio at a time, and screwing on and off coax connectors isnt "that" hard.
so, to get you back on the air; try this:
pick which radio you are going to use this week/day and set its output to a 2 watt deadkey.
hook the radio up to your BOOMER 500, and hook the BOOMER to your SWR meter. hook the SWR meter to the antenna coax.
check your SWR. my bet is that it is less than 1.5 to 1 on all channels, and that amp is PLENTY of power. (remember, you hear me just fine if the conditions are up, and i only run 150 watts peak!)
your jumpers are fine, if they worked well before, they work well now.
good luck, and let us know how things work.
matt
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 8514
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 11:41 pm: |
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Sinker,
#1 ~ If you keep blowing the Fuse then something is Still wrong.
Since you did not mention what KLV Amp you have if it is a tube Amp then you can have a bad tube resulting from your initial problem.
#2 ~ Check all of theTubes if you are talking about the KLV 1000.
#3 ~ DO NOT hook the amp back up until you Find your problem and get it fixed and then only after checking All of the tubes.
#4 ~ The ONLY Reason the back fuse will blow is if there is a Problem with your Station Setup,(including grounding) Coax, Antenna, Tubes or High SWR and it only blows to Protect damage to the Amp.
If you have problems with your setup or High SWR then it will make no difference what kind of amp you hook up as you will still have problems that can blow it up also and transistor Amps are far more unforgiving and expensive to repair that tube amps.
After your Intial problem the amp should have Never been turned back on and keyed until you found the problem and resolved/fixed the problem as you could have created a major problem from what was originally a very minor problem that could have been a single tube and an easy fix/repair.
No Amplifer of any kind likes High SWR and can go POOF instantly no matter if it is a KLV or Heath, or any other brand.
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN
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Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 389
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 8:14 am: |
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sounds familiar.
Wildrat |
Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 278
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 9:15 am: |
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Tech808 - Perhaps I should have clarified something -
I have TWO direct coax runs to the antenna (well to the polyphaser location) both with PolyPhasers, pre-planning for the beam antenna I do not have yet. I switched the coax lead I was using and am running SWR's of 1.1:1 to 1.2:1 across all channels.
I did key the KLV once before I did the complete trouble shoot but I had good SWR Readings as stated in the earlier post. Perhaps I shouldn't have done this, NOW YOU TELL ME, I didn't know any better - $600.00 lesson learned the hard way. I did not replace fuses and retry the KLV until I had completely and I mean completely checked everything, found the problem and corrected it but the fuse kept blowing, well twice, replaced the original and it blew, rechecked everything put in a new fuse and it blew, have not tried it again as I figured there was another problem and with the amp.
As far as it still blowing fuses - I do not know why, nor do I know how to check the tubes, that may be the problem as EVERYTHING else checks out and is fine. The Boomer is now in line and working fine as well with SWR increase only to 1.3:1. So I believe it is the KLV but if it is a bad tube or not I don't know but hopefully the fuse did its job and it will be a cheap and easy fix.
I am aware that the original SWR spike would have fried any AMP and I stated such in a previous post. My original reluctance was never using a tube amp before. This too was stated many times although in other posts. Please don't mistake my stating such or the fact that I feel more comfortable with a different type of amp and deciding to replace the KLV with it that I am saying the KLV isn't good or that another amp would not have blown as in fact a transistor amp may have been MUCH MORE costly to repair.
Kid-vicious - Thank You for the ideas. I personally do not have the knowledge or desire to mess with the amp. I would probably kill myself - What's that saying - "A man has got to know his limitations" heheehe.
I trouble shot the system as follows:
- Used an extra radio (Uniden 510) on a battery with SWR meter (didn't want to ruin a good base radio)
- Tested the first coax run from Antenna to Polyphasers - checked out GOOD
- Tested second run from Polyphasers to switch box - FOUND PROBLEM
- Went ahead and checked all jumpers by hand, sight and with a meter to ensure no shorts
- Checked all connectors on radios, switches and meters to ensure no shorts as well
- Changed to a different coax running from switch to polyphaser and all checked out fine.
- Direct hookup to antenna and all checked out fine.
- Hooked everything back up through switches etc. and checked again with the Uniden Radio - Everything Still Fine
- Hooked up base radios and checked again - Everything Still Fine
As I said still blowing fuses on the KLV-1000 though, everything on it works great to include the pre-amp until I key up, even then the fan turns on just no output. I put the Boomer in line in the KLV-1000's place and it is working fine NO PROBLEMS. Did not want to do any more damage to the KLV.
Tech808 probably nailed it that I may have a bad tube now from the first problem but I do not know how to check them
As for the BAD coax - have not yet replaced the connectors as I want to do this carefully to see if I can find the problem with it as it is a 50' run of LMR-400 and I do not want to have to replace it if I just need to replace the connectors.
Tim
CEF-634
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Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 999
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 1:33 pm: |
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Also for safety sakes of the Amp, make sure
your not swinging to many watts out of the
radio into the Amp.
Not sure what type of radio your using with
your AMP. But, radios like Galaxy Turbos or
radios with already built in amps even though
turned down to proper dead-key wattage can
sometimes swing to much for a 1-4 input amp.
The RM Italy (makers of KLV) website in my opinion
has misleading information on the input watts for there Amps.
I have used a KL mobile Amp with much success and
plan on getting a bigger model. Using a plain CB radio with extras deadkeying 2-3 watts with a swing of 8 watts on Am mode.
I personally do not care for Tube Amps. Not that
they are not good. But, i made some mistakes
in earlier years with them and the fear is still
with me...LOL...
This is just imformation and i'm not saying that
anybody has done anything wrong.
Good Luck Sinker and i hope things work out
for the best for ya!
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Sinker
Intermediate Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 282
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 7:56 pm: |
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Indeed Road_warrior. I use the KLV ONLY with the Texas Ranger 696F-SSB. It dead Keys 1.5 watts and swings 6. The RM Italy KLV site says the amp can handle up to 10 watts but Tech808 did a product review and said it ran best around 2 watts so that is what I went for.
I run the Galaxy Saturn Turbo alone as it swings 90 at full power. I run the Boomer with the Cobra 2000GTL and set the Dead Key at 2 to 3 watts.
Luckily I was given this info prior to running the amps. Yes I can get more watts by driving them harder but we all know what happens then.
I tried to ensure that everything I bought would handle at a minimum of twice the wattage I was capable of putting out and also that I did not push any of the equipment to it's limit and in fact went even a bit lower to help in their longevity. Not sure this needed but I try to do the same with all my fishing gear.
Thanks for the wishes. I am contemplating re-setting everything up all over again as I left little leeway for moving the equipment and had to unhook the grounds etc. to pull them out enough to unhook the coax etc. Was a very long process I do not want to go through again.
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Wildrat
Intermediate Member
Username: Wildrat
Post Number: 390
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 7:58 pm: |
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Sinker I have some old books around here from my Dad. They cover tubes and stuff. When I get more organized I will see if there is a way to ck the tubes with a meter. I don't think there is from my time with tubes. We always used a tube tester in the military, and Dad had a tube tester too. I don't know if he still has it or not. By the time I get around too finding stuff and seeing my Dad you will have your stuff fixed, but there is always next time.
Wildrat
CEF674 |
Kid_vicious
Advanced Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 905
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 11:09 pm: |
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tim, glad to hear the staiton is back on the air.
i know how frustrating it can be.
find yourself a copy of the Radio Amateur's Handbook.
you can find older versions on the auction site for very cheap. this will be your new favorite book.
my favorites are from between 1977-1987.
those versions focused more on the aspects of radio that we use in our hobby.
inside, you will find all the info you need or want about operating, and even building tube amps.
it is also about the best primer for radio knowledge there is. they have a new volume each year, but i dont like the newer ones because they focus on things that we dont use too much, and dont talk too much about tubes anymore.
after reading this, you will feel much more confident about checking your equipment.
have fun!
matt |
