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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 7040
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 9:38 pm: | 
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This Topic has been moved here from the Open Area of the Copper Forum.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Sinker
Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 54
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 5:50 pm: |
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I am considering these three amps.
I am concerned about the KLV-1000 Base being that it is a tube amp. I am guessing the TUNE, LOAD and Power has to be continually adjusted every time you change frequencies - Is this correct? I have no idea how to do this and am looking for something quick and easy but also very clean and durable. I have also hear but do not know that you have to key up and wait for the tubes to warm up - is this true??? The attractive thing about this amp is Copper carries it and I like the meters on it.
I am also considering the X-Force XT-40012, although it says XT 412 on the amp itself. It is 2 x 2SC2290 / 4 X 2SC2879. The Dave Made I am looking at uses the same pills as well. I like that there is no tuning etc. with these but how clean are they and durable. Of the X-Force and Dave Made any opinions as to which is made better and is a cleaner amp?
The between the Solid State or Tube Amp - Pros & Cons.
Some serious dollars here (for me anyway) so don't want to make a mistake.
I will be running the Texas Ranger 696F SSB Base with a Top One and a Maco v-5000 antenna as I am ditching the A-99.
Oh yeah - As to why so big of an amp - Do not want to run them at their limit as I heard this will make them last much longer. I have been reading many posts on many boards and I keep hearing about everyone wanting or wishing they had bought a larger or more powerful unit. All of these are double what I had originally thought of so again hope not to find myself in the position others have found themselves in. |
Troublemaker
Intermediate Member
Username: Troublemaker
Post Number: 183
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 7:46 pm: |
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I have a klv1000,works great with my 696f as well as any other radio. it's a good investment!check Lon's Review!
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Sinker
Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 57
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 9:34 pm: |
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Couldn't find his preview - Found a lot of threads he spoke about his KLV-1000 in though. Sounds like I will need the radio to be doing 2 watts DK for this amp to operate well and not sound pinched. Since I had my radio tuned and peaked I believe it will be doing more than this so NOT GOOD to use with this amp. I don't want to go throwing money away that I don't really have. Guess I will need another solution. I only want to work the amps at about 1/2 or maybe a bit more. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 7041
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:01 pm: |
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Sinker,
Click on the Link below to read the Review on the KLV-1000 Base Amplifier.
WE LOVE OURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KLV-1000 Amplifier Review
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 1461
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:22 pm: |
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the cons for tubes are-death-if you open 1 up not knowing what you are doing. i PERSONALLY knew 3 people, who KNEW what they were doing & got careless. none got to tell the EMT what exactly happened. !!!
if you keep the cover on, tuning is a hassle at worst. at best, a bit(slight bit) more tolerant of high swr's or overdrive.
if you get it at 2 watts from copper, that'll be fine-your swing will STILL top out where they suggest. (they will recommend LESS carrier from amp then their website states. more along the lines of 300 watts carrier. but still 1000 + swing.
a class 'b' amp should be a bit cleaner then a class 'c'. the klv1000 SHOULD be cleaner yet, but can't make any guarantees on that one.
also consider the transistor boxes could draw upwards of 12 or 13 amps from your 110v AC wall outlet. a dedicated line straight from the breaker box would be a good idea. the 696 will draw a few amps, as will lighting, & anything else. you'll be running to the standard 15 amp breaker everytime you key up 
finally, with any of those choices, you will be unable to easily upgrade the radio. they are ALL limited to LESS THEN 4 WATTS DEAD KEY! sure, you could modify built in amp radios to bypass the builtin amp, or dual final radios could have the carrier turned down, topgun magnums could be turned down topgun off mic gain down, etc. but all you're doing is defeating the purpose of those radios(the day will come when you WILL want to upgrade). NO transistor amp in your watt range is going to work (easily) with HIGH DRIVE/150 watt radios. the klv1000p IS a high drive tube amp, that will work well with input along the lines of the S9-but far from full output. to use your 696 with it, you'd need another small amp inline, but it would then function with 1 of the 150 watt radios, or HF/ham gear. just when you thought you had it narrowed down... |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 2196
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 10:41 pm: |
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If your base has dual finals,you can use the 1000p it will only put out 700 to 800 watts with 25 to 40 watts input ssb,but you will be all set if you upgrade to a 100 watt radio,just a thought.Bigbob |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 7043
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 1:05 am: |
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Patzerozero,
TUBE AMPs ARE NOT DEATH
If you personally knew 3 people then you knew 3 VERY DUMB PEOPLE who were not educated enough to put rubber dishwashing gloves or any rubber gloves on when working on them.
If a person is not smart enough to follow standard SAFE procedures when working on any high powered equipment and gets zapped then please DO NOT place the blame on the Tube Amps.
Put the BLAME where it belongs which is on the Person working on them without the Knowledge / Experience to even remove the cover in the 1st place.
In over 30+ Years I have never had an accident with a Tube Amp or know of ANYONE who has if they take very simple / standard SAFE measures when working on them.
TUNNING a HASSLE?
I guess you have never used a KLV Amp as it takes less than 3 seconds to adjust the TUNE and LOAD controls on them. 
I have Never had anyone complain about the KLV Tube Amps not being CLEAN sounding and no one has ever been able to tell the difference on the other end if I am using the KLV 300 or 500 or the KLV-1000 Base.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Sinker
Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 60
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 6:38 am: |
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Just found my post here - Sorry I put it in the wrong section.
Boy - decisions decisions and then some more decisions and things to learn.
I need more time and money - heheehe... |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 437
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 8:34 am: |
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I've been working on tube amps for a long time, both audio and RF including large broadcast transmitters. I'm still on two feet. Not to mention you don't have to touch the HV in a broadcast final section, it will reach out and getcha!
Chad |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 1467
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 12:53 pm: |
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easy, lon, i should have gone farther with the 'tuning is a hassle at worst' comment, because i meant it more along a 'not a problem' line of thought.
same with the 'the klv1000 SHOULD be cleaner yet' comment, when compared to the class 'c' & 'b' custom pill boxes. it SHOULD BE CLEANER, correct?
i DID qualify the DEATH statement with 'if you open 1 up not knowing what you are doing'. that says it all-DON'T OPEN IT UP IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING! i remember all the gory details from 'communications electronics' HS classes back in the 70's, when radios had gone solid state, but most amps were still tube. 1 teacher showed us the burns on his hands from broadcast station transmitter. other had burns as well as back problems from working at RCA on LI in his earlier days. the 3 i knew, 1 was retired from local AM broadcast station, worked transmitter repairs 1st, later transmission lines/antenna for sister station. 2nd was 2nd generation tv repair shop owner & ham from the 50's, 3rd was tech for lafayette radio. all 3 were lifelong radiophiles & well schooled in what they were doing. overconfidence & carelessness is PROBABLY what did them in
also, 'dragon', of LI, NY in '94, & 'globetrotter' a/k/a 'golden arm' of fla in 2003 i think, also met senseless & untimely demises at the hands of tube amplifiers they were working with. experienced with what they were doing-yes, as much so as the other 3-no.
if your tube amp DOES NOT work, DON'T PUT YOUR HANDS IN IT if you don't know what you're doing!!! |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 438
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 3:50 pm: |
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We always joke about working on transmitters... You always go in pairs, one to ket killed and another to fill out the accident report/insurance claim. We call the ground prod the Jesus stick, use it or you will meet him (shake his hand)
Chad |
Sinker
Member
Username: Sinker
Post Number: 64
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 5:23 pm: |
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Now I would be afraid to change the tubes. Thats OK though as I noticed the local VFW I think it is has classes for those wanting to get their ham license. I will sign up and then take the test for the Tech to start with and if I need new tubes maybe I can talk them into doing it for me for a beer or two. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 7058
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 7:24 pm: |
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Sinker,
There is NOTHING TO BE AFRAID OF!
With the KLV-1000 or 1000P when you remove the Top Cover there is a Saftey Switch that KILLS to power to the Amp.
If you get one follow the easy steps below.
#1 ~ Put Rubber Dish Washing gloves on to prevent any chance of shock or getting oil on tubes.
#2 ~ Remove the Top Tube Cover / Plate by removing the screws in the top plate and squeeze the springs to lift off the top of the tubes.
#3 ~ Pull Tubes Straight UP
#4 ~ Install  Tubes
$5 ~ Replace top Tube Cover / Plate on tubes and re-install the screws
#6 ~ Re-install the Top Cover of the Amp
#7 ~ You are DONE!
#8 ~ You should not need to replace any tubes for well over a year or more. 
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 2205
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 8:20 pm: |
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Like where I work,if you have respect for the sheets of glass,all is well,if you do not give respect to the glass you can lose an arm or your head,do not fear it just respect it,and you'll have no problem,just like Tech 808.Bigbob |
Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 1470
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 8:49 pm: |
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i met the 1st guy in around 1982 or 83, was plowing snow at local radio station during BIG STORM. station owner asked if i would drive 20 miles away to get tech & take him to transmitter(which is located on 1 of the highest 'hills' on LI), for a fee, in the heart of the storm, because 1 of their stations was off the air & they had no other way to get him there & get that transmitter back on. phone calls were made & tech said i needed to pick up a 2nd. no problem, got 'em both to tower/xmtr site, & that was the 1st thing he said to me the whole time-'if i get killed, he'll let you know you can leave. then he'll fill out the paperwork'.
i kept CB on low during whole ride, which took HOURS(normally 30+ minutes), because i thought its noise bothered him. found out a few weeks later he was a ham. turns out he also had a cb in his camper. would speak to him on cb once or twice a year when he camped on LI. was working on his amp (ham,not for cb), a few years after he retired, when.... |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 439
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 9:23 pm: |
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When working on ANY tube gear I always unplug it take my noshockem harness and tie the b+ to ground, sometimes in older gear the caps will want to float up and newer gear has great caps in them that can hold a charge for days.
*** no shockem harness = allagator lead cut in half, insert a 10W 1K resistor in line, solder and heatshrink. I use the resistor to prevent arcing when you ground out the B+, it's not good on older caps to dump them with full short current. Tie this to B+ and ground, work away, untie it ONLY before powering up.
I also work one handed whenever possible, refuse to wear ESD around tube gear, and break the habit of resting your forearm on the chasis when you are working. My boots are good for 1KV the hair on my forearm is not  If you are a newbie wear long sleves, it looked stupud but when I started out my boss advised me of this so I cut the sleves off of an old sweatshirt and in the summer would work in a tanktop and slide the sleeves up my arms when working on HV, I bet it saved me from hopping a couple times.
Oh, do I have some stories, I have been hit, once with 800V off of a 200W audio amp that the ground balancing resistors failed as did the ground bond, the scope was the ground, when I unplugged it I was the ground, yes 833, I know, 800V is an insane plate voltage for an AF amp. My claves and butt muscles hurt BAD for a couple days due to the launch it caused off of the floor, I woke up on the other side of the room when I landed. At around 400V it's really embarassing, you can actually hear and remember the girl-like shreik you make as the air suddenly evacuates your lungs and you dance like wile-y-cyote.
Fun stuff, I love it!
Chad
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Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 2209
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 7:12 pm: |
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Yeah in a few years " A toast to my late friend Chad",yeah real fun stuff,hooboy.Bigbob |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 443
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 8:56 pm: |
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It's been a long time, I have never met a person who has worked in electronics their entire life and never been nipped. |
