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Tomcatinva
Member
Username: Tomcatinva
Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 1:03 pm: | 
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I am thinking about putting up a dipole antenna across the top of my house. The only problem is, I live in one of "those" communities that has restrictions on what you can do and what you can't do.  Kind of stinks, but anyway... I was thinking about putting up a dipole antenna and running it along the top of the house right above the "ridge plate/vent" using plastic clips to keep it off of the "ridge plate/vent" which is made of aluminum. My reasoning for doing this is, it would be kind of unnoticeable by the other home owners and the home owners association and would be sitting at the top of my house. The position of the antenna (end to end) would run North to South putting the radiation pattern running east and west. The only other thing I can think of is to put up a 104" whip on a mirror type mount on the mount that holds my Sat. dish on the roof, which is on the back side of the house but this would be sitting a little lower than what the dipole would sit. Right now I have a "make shift antenna" in the attic and well, let's just say it stinks…  if you know what I mean. What are ya'lls opinions is this a good idea or bad idea?? Will it work? Any suggestions/Ideas...
Thanks for any input you can offer.
TomCat in VA... CEF217 
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Kid_vicious
Advanced Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 557
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
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tomcat, there is an antenna that i have used with great success in the past. this is called the half-square antenna. you can do a g**gle search on this and find all the info you need, but basically here is what it is:
get an so-239 connector, and solder a piece of copper wire (14-16ga or bigger) that is 108" or longer to the center conductor.
then cut a piece of wire that is about 210" (just over 17 feet) long. make a sharp bend in the wire right at the 17' mark.
cut another piece of wire that is 108" or longer and solder it to the 17' wire right at the place where you made the bend. solder this piece of wire (108") so that it forms a right angle to the 17' wire. it will look like you made a "corner" in the wire. cut off the excess on the 17' wire.
now attatch the other end of the 17' wire to the ground connection of the so-239.
on the hole opposite the one you connected the 17' wire to; tie a long piece of string or rope to
it.
tie another long piece of rope to the "corner" that you made.
now you need a place to mount this thing that is 17' wide or wider. ant that has places to tie the ropes that are higher than 102".
at one end of your 17' space. put a plastic tent stake in the ground. make a bend on the wire attatched to the center conductor right at 102".
wrap the excess around the tent stake so that when you tighten the rope, the so-239 connector will pull the wire taut, and the connector will be 102" up off the ground. the wire should be as straight up and down as possible.
now go to the "corner" that you made, and tie the rope to something that is higher than 102". pull the rope tight so that the 17' wire is horizontal and pulled fairly tight. (doesnt have to be perfectly straight.)
now pound another plastic tent stake on the ground directly below the "corner" which is right at 102", right?
make a bend in the wire coming down from the "corner" right at 102" and wrap the excess around the tent stake. dont leave any excess wire on.
now you can connect the coax to the so-239 connector and run it to the shack.
this is basically a vertical dipole fed in phase and produces about a 3db gain over a standerd dipole.
the one in my bckyard had an swr of 1.5 across the band with no adjustments.
so, in the simplest terms: it's a 17 foot piece of wire with a 102" piece of wire hanging down from either end. one of which is connected to the center conductor of the so-239.
i know it sounds complicated, but it does work well, and is only 8.5 feet off the ground.
could be hidden in your yard and referred to as a "clothesline".
if you have any questions, i'll be happy to help.
matt |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 423
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 10:03 am: |
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Do you have any trees to put the dipole in? I ran a tree mounted dipole for a long time as my primary antenna and thought it worked well. It was my backup as of recent when the tree suffered storm damage. As for coax, Copper now sells direct burial cable that can handle direct soil contact. This can be concealed underground to the tree.
I use buryflex due to the fact thea copper did not sell the cable then. I burried mine bacause I am married to the "homeowners association" for my property  She let me put the Imax on a push up pole. I am now tower hunting in the country, Hmmmmmmmm, looks like I better kiss up!
Chad |
Tomcatinva
Member
Username: Tomcatinva
Post Number: 70
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 1:32 pm: |
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I do have trees but they are a good ways away from my house. And unfortunately I can't even put up a close line in my back yard either. I was thinking about the Dipole antenna because it would sit low enough across the ridgeline of my roof that no one would see it. It would also keep me out of the "dog house" with my better half, if you know what I mean... 
I was curious how it would work sitting about one half an inch above the aluminum ridgeline vent on the top of the roof. Would the aluminum have a bad effect on the SWR's?? I was planing on using some plastic clips to hold the dipole up and off of the aluminum vent.
So what do you all think??
TomCat in VA CEF217... |
Kid_vicious
Advanced Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 583
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 5:53 pm: |
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i think that it will affect the antenna a bit.
as to how much, who knows.
one thing i can tell you for sure though, if that were my only antenna option, i'd put it up regardless.
matt |
Airplane1
Advanced Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 560
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 7:17 am: |
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I thought that you are allowed to put antennas up and no one can tell you any differnt. I dont now for sure but I think I read this somewhere from the FCC. Maybe its tv antennas i`m thinking of?
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 7011
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 7:58 am: |
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Airplane1,
Generally Yes you can if you are a Licensed Ham.
But you may still need permits if required from your Local Authority.
If you are Not a Licensed Ham then there is Nothing that allows you to do anything.
Depending on your Local City/County Building & Safty Codes and your Location also effects What and Where and How High you can go.
And then the City / County also has the FINAL say on where you can or cannot place your Towers or Pushup poles also.
OHHHH then we also had to call "JULIE" to come out and mark where all of the Utilities were located in the ground BEFORE we could dig.
Here where we live they needed the Specifications on the Towers, Pushup Poles and Antennas as well wind load ratings and needed to know exactly where we wanted to put them. (We had to draw them a map of the exact location) before they wouls issue us a permit to put them up.
They also wanted a Copy of my FCC Amateur Radio License.
Then they issued us a permit to install the towers / antennas.
Then when we were finished we also had to call them back for a Final Inspection / OK, before we could actually hook the Coax up and use them.
Our CITY JUST LOVES GETTING MONEY from Ham Operators putting towers and antennas up.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 430
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 8:24 am: |
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In Bloomington/Normal?! WOW Glad I live where I do!
Chad |
Airplane1
Advanced Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 561
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 11:30 am: |
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All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Tomcatinva
Member
Username: Tomcatinva
Post Number: 71
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 12:23 pm: |
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Oh yea, been there done that. When I wanted to put in a patio and deck I had to submit a drawing of the deck and patio with specifications of all type & a drawing of my lot. Then it had to go to the Architect control board for review and the home owners assoc. for approval. And they only meet once a month. Oh yea I forgot... the pickets on the deck have to be painted white.
They do allow flag poles but not the vertical ones, only the type that you mount on the side of your deck/house.
I have gotten to the point I am ready to buy a new house with at least 10 acres of land around it so no one will bother me…
Ok so back to the subject of the dipole… Hollowpoint445, I do have several different ridge line vents the biggest one runs north and south and I also have a couple of ones that run east and west if I do what you are saying could I join them all together somehow and get the signal pattern to work 360 degrees or at least better than just east and west? And I know I am probably showing how much I "don't know" but what exactly is "dropping a counterpoise of wire from it"? I know it's probably something I know but I would hate to be thinking one thing and it turn out to be something else… Ok do I sound like an end user now or what?? 
You know the strange thing about this is I always wondered if those ridge line vents would work as an antenna or at the least a good ground plane.
Thanks Much for the input!! If this would work I would be one happy camper, and my wife wont get upset!! 
TomCat in VA, CEF217 |
Tomcatinva
Member
Username: Tomcatinva
Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 1:33 pm: |
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Ok, I did some reading and then I realized, Duh… just what a counterpoise is… Just call me "stu" last name "pid"… I guess that's what I get for trying to do other things (like work) when I am posting a question huh?? I mean who ever thought of doing work while at work anyways?? I just blame this on Drain Bamage I got from my kids…
Anyway, what I have decided to do is take a 102 inch stainless steal whip and mount it to a ground plane that I have set up in my attic get some new coax (after I measure for it first) and try that. If that doesn't work then I guess I am just gonna have to mount the antenna to the back of my Sat. dish antenna mast. Then maybe I'll be able to get on the air and chat with everyone on the net on Sundays… 
Thanks for all of you all input, I will let you know the outcome of what I end up doing…
TomCat in VA CEF217…
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