| Author |
Message |
    
Af579
Junior Member
Username: Af579
Post Number: 42
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 6:17 pm: | 
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What would be the better setup of the 2.
6 element beam
or
stacked maco 4's?
What you folks think? |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 753
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 7:20 pm: |
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Stacked 4's for best performance.
Alittle more work involved than just
mounting 1 beam though.
Are you mounteding VERT OR HORZ???
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Twowatt
Member
Username: Twowatt
Post Number: 60
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:18 pm: |
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make a 6 element quad, tho u didn't include this choice.
>17 dbi forward gain. >43 db rejection. dual polarity to boot.
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Deceived1
Junior Member
Username: Deceived1
Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 12:24 am: |
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Twowatt whats the bandwidth of the 6 element quad ?
is it limited to on channel ?
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Af579
Junior Member
Username: Af579
Post Number: 43
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 5:49 pm: |
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humm i like quads much better but was trying to build somthing with what I have on hand. Right now in the air is the shooting star 4. and I have 2 1/2 full sets of moonraker 4's in the attic. I thought stacking would give 3db. so 2 sets of 4's would = a six in forward db gain correct? |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 758
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 8:52 pm: |
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Those stacked 4's would out-do a 6 element. |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 759
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 9:06 pm: |
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To take advantage of getting the full
3 db gain from stacking two 4 elements
your going to have to mount them 24-27 ft
apart from each other. Too close together
you will not realize the full 3 db increase.
Hummmm Good Luck in whatever you do. |
Kb9umt_don_123
Junior Member
Username: Kb9umt_don_123
Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 12:07 am: |
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Richard af579
I was going to ask some questions but thanks to Copper we have already some information at hand with our profiles.
Where you live might make a difference on what you do….such as your weather…wind, icing, hurricanes etc etc
What you currently have in place and are using….such as your current antenna and installation….antenna gain, height, feedline etc etc
Looking at your profile (if you still have the current setup listed) you already have a great height for your antenna installation….if you still are using the 70 ft tower along with your mast pipe you are at a perfect 2 wave length height or above 72 ft (36 ft is one wave length x2 = 72 ft).
Looking at your profile (if you still have the current setup listed) you already have a great antenna…the Lightning 4 (although I’m not sure what that antenna is but I’m assuming it’s a 4 element yagi/beam/and/or quad). What is the current gain of your antenna? 7 or 9 db or maybe 14 dbi?
I no doubt think that by stacking your antennas properly you will see an increase of about 3db or ½ s-unit and you will gain much on pattern or directivity/rejection….but here are some other questions:
What are you trying to do with your current setup that adding another 3db or so will help? (ground wave distance or weak signal work? Rejection for interference? Better DX signal? Etc).
Are you located in an area that a large array can be substance? Your profile states you are on the coast of Florida and from the weather patterns we have all seen recent there I’m not sure if you might be setting yourself up for more maintenance or possible damage or downtime.
Do you have limited or unlimited funds for this larger antenna system? Not sure of your current rotor situation but you most likely will have to upgrade to a larger rotor, beef up the supports and guys….the bigger the better but also the costs and labor involved to keep things going.
I personally think that if you already have a decent antenna system like a Lightning 4 at or over 72 feet that for me with limited funds, knowing what damage can be done, the maintenance involved I would stick with what I had because I’m not sure the extra ½ s-unit would be worth the time, effort, and or money….but again I always would put my money to improve my antenna system to the best I could afford or maintain. The antenna system does include the best low loss connection and for the longer runs of feline that you would need for a 70ft tower installation maybe even upgrading to lower loss coax….and or an expensive low loss preamp for weak signal work.
I really do believe the antenna is everything but to a point….and you must be the judge of that. I have had stacked 3 yagi’s for 10 and 11 meters….had 4 and 6 elements etc etc…have helped with stacked Moonraker4 installation….friends with stacked 6…and one friend that did have more money than time and had double stacked 5 elements (that is FOUR separate 5 element Telex yagi/beams with the top set at 120 ft on a commercial tower)….by far the best results for myself was stacking the 5 element yagi’s (tried the quads but the larger they got for me here in the Midwest the more ground time due to wind and ice).
GL with your antenna choice but for me as I get older getting a decent antenna in the air is good but also knowing when to stop because there is a point of no returns is also good to know.
De kb9umt Don
http://www.HamRadioHelp.com
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Chainsawiowa
Junior Member
Username: Chainsawiowa
Post Number: 46
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 8:53 am: |
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Hope you live where there is no wind and no ice in the winter months GOOD LUCK !! |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 760
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 9:55 am: |
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I personally would be afraid to put up
a large array of antennas for fear they
would come toppling down...LOL... It would
probably also require a massive sized rotor,
some planning and some money and some prayer
that they stay up. LOL... Well, anyhow good
luck with whatever you choose to do. |
Twowatt
Member
Username: Twowatt
Post Number: 61
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 1:33 pm: |
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deceived1,
to answer ur Q about bandwidth, an average set of 6 element quads will easily have a swr of less that 1.6:1 across 40 channels. with a good matching system and larger wires, the swr will come down so as to be able to use them on 11 and the lower part of 10 meters wth acceptable swr. |
Sonny
Member
Username: Sonny
Post Number: 65
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 4:19 pm: |
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I would not stack any for one your db does not double and the wind load would something to think about |
Af579
Junior Member
Username: Af579
Post Number: 44
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 5:28 pm: |
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well i am looking for ears more so. I far out talk my rx even with no power. Rotor is no problem. I have a massive thrust bearing and a cd 44 rotor. tower is only with mast pipe 56 foot to boom.<need> I am going to up this 10 more feet as i have 1 spare stick of tower. Heck that alone should help the RX. I am worried about going any higher. I know that would be the best idea but I do live in florida LOL. so just shooting ideas out there. |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 762
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 8:07 pm: |
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One of the best beams that had great
ears that i ever had up was a S.E. Quad.
I had a Shooting Star up for awhile that
was a nice antenna. That's what you have
up right now i think you said.
I do more local rag-chewing than DX Talking
and got tired of turning beam all the time.
LOL... So, i put a I-10K up high on my tower
where my beam used to be and i'm satisfied
with that. Do not have room to put up both.
If i had more space and lived more in the
country i probably would stack beams. Away
from everything in case they crashed...LOL |
Kb9umt_don_123
Junior Member
Username: Kb9umt_don_123
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:17 pm: |
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While your adding the 10 extra feet of tower (and I think you are right, in your location that is a risky move going higher) I would double check the coax and connectors and replace them if they are older while down before going back up in the air...lower loss coax and connection can help. I think a mast mount preamp would do well for you...or maybe Copper sells preamps to help the rx..remember though at the antenna is best and you get what you pay for..if you increase the rx but also the noise floor at too large of levels what good is it no matter the price...have you tried a preamp? I have a few cd 44s around but if you load up a larger array or stacked array no matter the thrust bearing you will want a larger rotor to handle the stress/load...you might get away with it for a few months or a year or two but I would bet money the other way and my experience is if you don't use a heavy rotor designed for large or stacked arrays you will be on the tower soon. Hope your project goes well.
de kb9umt Don123 |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 2137
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 5:33 am: |
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How about using the driven element of a pdl-2 on a white lightning for greater band width,that would be a funny looking antenna,also the reason you don't get exactly 3db gain on a stacked array is because you are splitting your signal between 2 antennas that equals a 3db loss,the array would thus have to net you a 6db increase to achieve your goal or just double the watts in to offset,the antenna is everything on tx but most rxers have at least 132db gain in their recievers,that's why you can hear but not communicate,by the way what wattage would you need to produce 132db increase?Bigbob |
Af579
Junior Member
Username: Af579
Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 11:33 am: |
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I am worried about the 50+ feet I have it up now much less the 60+ I am going to take it up to(I am an old Virginia boy we don't get too many hurricanes up there lol). I was asured it would go nowhere by the man I had put it up tho. We have a nice concrete base with plenty of rebarb and the tower sits on a plate bolted to the concrete and then 20 feet above that it is attached to the side of the house then we have it guyed off 20 foot above that. You would be suprised how many folks down here in florida have towers up well over 100+ foot. gezzz talk about livin on the wild side. but anyhow I figure 10 more feet up to 60+ should help improve my ears some. and that will give me a little more space to side mount 6M 2M 70CM stuff :-) |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 767
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 6:24 pm: |
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Let us know how you make out after you
raise it. Raising it should increase your ears
a bit. Good Luck and wish you the best!
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