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Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop
Post Number: 140
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 2:28 pm: | 
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The tech sheet for a 1969 final says that with a 1 watt input you get 16 watts CW and 22 watts PEP. The sheet for the 2312 says with a 1.2 watt input you get 20 watts CW and 30 watts PEP.
OK, they both usually use the same driver, the 2SC2166. With .2 watts in you get 5 watts CW and 7.5 watts PEP output.
Doesn't this mean that you are dividing that 5 watts CW between two finals? And if so, then you could technically increase the driver to increase the drive to the two 2SC2312's which require a slight bit more drive.
So does this mean that my radio with dual 1969 finals would benefit from me changing them over to 2312's? OR my radio using dual 2312's, would it benefit from going to dual 1969's? Wonder which one has the most audio output or sounds the cleanest or loudest? Which brings me to this question I assume you could increase the drive to the 2312's to make up for the .2 difference in input drive. I know that it isn't suppose to be as simple has just swappin' transistors. I understand that fully. I am asking this from a technical point and a "what if" stand point. NOT a "I'm going to do this, what'a ya'll think" stand point. Just food for thought. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 420
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 8:51 pm: |
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if you go back to the S9 thread & read my last post, you'll see a friend of mine has gotten 65 watts pep & 25 dk from his S9. not being able to see for a while , he probably increased the drive and/or voltage to the 2166 and/or 1969's. i don't think he swapped out transistors...
now 45 watts to 65 isn't noticeable, 4 watts to 25 watts should be almost an S-unit, but last i talked to him, he wasn't sure how long the transistors would handle that much out. as for audio, whatever has been done has shown a significant increase in apparent audio level, possibly due partly to increased compression (judging by the increase in the 'compressed' sound)
not sure how it affects 'smaller' output transistors, but in custom amps, the transistor only handles X amount of input wattage before it self destructs, but the builders rate their boxes at 2 or more voltages, and obviously the higher the voltage, the higher the output. now they're not doing anything to the 1st driver, the radio, however they are increasing the voltage to the final amplifier stages, the, say 2 or 4 pill driver amp and 8 or 16 pill final amp, now being powered with 18 or 22 volts or whatever.
pretty sure that's basically where he went with the dual 1969's in the S9. so what you'd have to do is check & see if the stock radio is producing the voltage needed drive the following transistors to the max, if not increase the voltage to increase the output(volting the finals). of course, you keep increasing & eventually you need new transistors...that's why just get what you can from the radio easily & then go buy a bigger amp!!! |
Sg569
Member
Username: Sg569
Post Number: 88
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 10:39 am: |
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Personally I think that ot might be kinda fun to swap out the finals and play that way. Besides, big amps can be seen. Little transistors can only be seen if you open the radio. Yes it is MUCH easier to just get a bigger amp, but who said I want to do things the easy way? I have fun trying to mod things, and seeing how well they work after; besides if they don't I can always put it back the way I found it, right? I want the learning experiance.
Thanks for the input though,
569 |
Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop
Post Number: 141
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 5:14 pm: |
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I agree Sg569. That is how I look at this whole CB thing. It is a hobby, no matter what anyone says. You've never heard of a soul that got paid to sit and talk on the cb, I mean just flip channels and jaw jack. Unless they worked on radios or something like that. But CB isn't a profession, it's a hobby.
There might not be any gain from doing this, but I'm just curious as to why they build one radio with dual 1969's and another with dual 2312's, both Galaxy radios? I have learned the hard way, you can't put a 2166 for a driver in a cobra. I did anyway and it fried the resistor in front of the driver. Blue smoke city, and yes I made sure I went by B.E.C, not B.C.E |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4797
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 4:58 pm: |
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Therealporkchop,
Sad to say but you will see more and more radios NOT using the 1969 finals as they are quickly becoming extinct.
The price has doubled and in some places tripled in just the past year and they are no longer being produced, so there is a very limited supply left for the manufacturers to draw from.
Look for radios in the near future to start using MOSFET.
The times are changing and as the price continues to rise they are forced to look for a more reasonable alternative to use.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop
Post Number: 143
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:03 pm: |
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Lon, what do you think about this...
I have an RCI-2970. You know it has two 2290's in it. Would it increase power if I changed them to 2879's? I got this radio from another HAM, and at one time I saw this radio swing about 160 watts on AM CB bands. I don't get that result, and when I saw it, it was on my meters.
About what kind of power should this radio put out? A buddy has a 48T and tonight I saw it swing 150 easy on my meter. So I know that my RCI should do this well or better. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 430
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 5:24 pm: |
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let's assume we can get the 2290's to key 60 watts & swing 150, whether is real, true, honest watts or not doesn't really matter for the 'test', then if you wanna go through the trouble , time & cost of swapping 2879's in, & getting them tuned & matched right, you might get 120 watts key & 250 watts swing. at the absolute best, the gain may just barely be noticeable. barely. don't get me wrong, i love opening things up & messing with 'em to get the most watts, most swing, loudest audio, best performance i possibly can. some mods & changes just aren't worth the time & effort though. my neighbor is running a 2x455 amp on a base that his wattmeter says is doing almost 150 swing 250. his 2x1446 does a bit more. my mobile dead keys between 80-100, tops, and swings less then 175, on a diamond sx100. i can talk every bit as far as his imax, from my mobile, and dx more often then not my mobile can out do his base. he knows my setup, yet still figures i'm not telling the truth. he's turned up radios output, run 12v power supply into power mic & done everything he possibly can think of to get more 'power'. no changes in my mobile & i still 'get out' better. quality, not neccessarily quantity, porkchop. just like buying 2 camaros, porkchop. 1 may run 15 seconds in the 1/4 mile, the other may run 15.5, but gets better mileage & doesn't break down as often. i'd rather win & be out there all the time, then blow the other guy away once & be broken the rest of the time. i don't care that my 2x2290 amp does 80/160 & someone else's does 90/180. all else being equal, nobody's gonna tell the difference. but that's the key, all else is NEVER equal, so you go with the flow & make the best of what you got.
i know, i know porkchop, hobby, fun, experiment. but i still seem to use my 3 watt grant xl in my mobiles, & don't go crazy modifying it, & if i need more power, i just go to a bigger amplifier. works every time, & the radio never breaks down. |
Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop
Post Number: 146
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 2:02 am: |
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Pat, I can tell by your last paragraph you have read most if not all my post. HAHA. I see your point, and very well made it is. I've said this 1000 times, I know my meter isn't the top of the line, but I get very close readings to so of the other guys top knotch stuff. I was tinkering with a 48T and shows a 50 watt key on the high side, and swings to around 160 or so depending on the input voltage. My RCI-2970 is the older one with the amber lights. I have seen this radio talk that hard before, just wondering why it isn't now?
Biggest thing is I was mostly curious, and I keep a good size stock of junk laying around. I'd like to put an echo board in this radio, but seems to do so well, I really don't want to hurt the radio.
Going back to the original post though, wonder why they are stopping production of the 1969? If they are going to 2312's wonder why the guy at Galaxy's repair center told me that the 2312 I put in my radio wouldn't work and swapped it back out for a 1969? |
Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop
Post Number: 154
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 6:32 pm: |
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If they are stopping production of the 2SC1969 what part will you use in it's place? 2SC2312 or will you go with a sub like NTE236. What are other subs for the 1969? |
Tech291
Moderator
Username: Tech291
Post Number: 98
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 9:00 pm: |
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not stopping production but stopped it a couple years ago,at least Motorola and Toshiba did.once the supply dries up thats it for the 1969.and believe it or not,there is a bootleg and counterfiet business in semiconductors.if it dont have motorola or other big name logo it is probley not the real thing.just like transistors taking over for tubes,the mosfet is replacing the silicone device!when HEMT (think i got that right)technology took over for silicone transistors in satellite use noise tempretures dropped 90% in less than a year.its time to look forward guys!
tech291
CEF#291
kc8zpj |
Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop
Post Number: 164
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 7:19 pm: |
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Having trouble finding these. There is a company in San Marcos CA that has them, but I was trying to beat that price. I found another in Ohio that was selling these pretty cheap and as I found out the hard way they were cheap themselves. NTE claims that their NTE236 is a replacement for the 2sc1969. They also recommend it for the 2312 and the 2166. How can they claim this, I mean you can't use the final for the driver can you? Plus they cost about twice the price as the 1969. The worst part is there isn't anywhere locally where I can just drive up and get what I want, that really sucks. I have to order them and pay handling and shipping plus COD fee if I ship them that way. The oddball 1969 was .89 cent, then it went to 1.19. I should have known better, true, but I thought I might have found something worth my time. I was wrong.
Please email me if you know of another place to pick these up..or if you'd like to share your source for parts.
Thanks! |
Sonoma
Intermediate Member
Username: Sonoma
Post Number: 166
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 9:42 pm: |
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www.rfparts.com
this is the place I buy a lot of parts from .if you call them they have a volume discount on most items.
there parts have always been good.
Sonoma |
Weatherman49
Junior Member
Username: Weatherman49
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 11:52 pm: |
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Hey pat! Question! I asked in another post but what is volting? thats a new one on me! I have a sheet here that says the specks on the 2sc1957 driver is NPN 75v 1A .75w and the 2sc2314 is NPN 45v 1A 5w now for my next Q. I changed the driver and final in my pc68 from a 2sc2314 to a 1957 and the final from a 2078 to a 1969 according to the sheet the 2314 driver has more output at less voltage with the same amp draw! is this correct? and if so would I gain anything from putting the 2314 driver back in? I'm like everone else I like to tinker just for the learning expirience the 1957 and 1969 combo put out around 25w pep in a 29ltd but its only gettin around 18 in the 68xl if that volting trick is what i think it is then the 29 probably had the means to push it where the 68 wont if some one could fill me in on this trick (like how to do it) them I might be able to get the same results from the 68 |
Therealporkchop
Intermediate Member
Username: Therealporkchop
Post Number: 170
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:43 am: |
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Yeah, RF is nice I just got an order from them. They have went up on the 1969 and don't offer the tech paks anymore.... |
Sonoma
Intermediate Member
Username: Sonoma
Post Number: 167
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 2:01 am: |
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I ordered 30 1969s from the same company and they are useless.waiting to see if they e-mail me back on my complaint. |
Sonoma
Intermediate Member
Username: Sonoma
Post Number: 168
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 5:19 pm: |
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therealporkchop I contacted the company in ohio and they told me to send the 1969s back they will refund your money.that is why they no longer carry them.parts are bad.
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