| Author |
Message |
    
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 110
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 7:53 pm: | 
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I was wondering if I have the steel mast pipe going unbroken from the ground to the antenna, do I still need to run a ground wire to the base of the antenna , and if so what gauge?
Thanks again
Bob |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 212
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 8:52 pm: |
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It depends on what you've done with the mast. I'd suggest you read about it and decide for yourself. What I'd be most concened about is lightning if you live in an area that has lightning. Here are some links:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/grounding/index.html
http://www.qsl.net/ve3cvg/tower/lightning.htm
This document is excellent:
http://www.polyphaser.com/datasheets/PEN1016.pdf
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Yankee
Intermediate Member
Username: Yankee
Post Number: 195
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 10:09 pm: |
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Bob, I have a six and eight foot ground rod driven, using #12 copper wire.
Yankee |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 113
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2004 - 11:44 pm: |
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Thanks to both of you. Hollowpoint where I live in California lightening strikes are rare and I have three 150 plus Lodge Pole pine trees above my antennas so I wonder if I have to worry about grounding at all
Thanks again
Bob |
Hollowpoint445
Intermediate Member
Username: Hollowpoint445
Post Number: 214
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 12:28 am: |
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It does sound unlikely that your antenna would be hit with those tall trees nearby, but lightning is very unpredictable and dangerous. It never hurts to be prepared in case one would happen. At the very least I'd ground the coax before it comes into your home. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 3249
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 9:21 am: |
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Easy Grounding Suggestions,
#1 ~ Ground ALL Radio Equipment ie: Meters, Amps, Antenna Switchs, Rotor & Rotor Controls, Power Supplies.
#2 ~ Ground Coax & Antennas as well as what the Antenna is mounted to ie: Pushup Poles, Towers, Mast pipes, Roof Tri-pods. (Everything)
1 hour of time and spending from $25.00 to $50.00 can possibly save you the expense of Replacing even 1 Radio, Meter or Antenna.
Just a Helpful Suggestion.
Lon
Tech808 |
Pig040
Advanced Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 536
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 9:46 am: |
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Bob,
Lightning doesnt have to hit, just be close, looked what happened to Hal! I would buy a 9.00 ground rod, and drive that sucker in, just to be safe! Or safer, anyway.
Rich |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 118
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 4:46 pm: |
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About the ground pole, it's impossible. The mountain I live on is made of granite and if I'm lucky it might have 3 feet of soil over the rock. The last pipe I drove in the ground was for the station equipment it was 3 and 1/2 feet and at about 2 and 3/4 feet the heavey duty copper tubing broke at the top. I was using a 3 pound sledge, and it kept bouncing off of the top of the tubing .The top of the pipe was pretty flat by then then and it began to turn slightly. I straightened it out a little and then it just broke off. And this was after soaking the ground to make it easier to drive in.
I guess what I'm trying to say is up here in the California mountains at 7200 feet we really don't have anywhere near 8 foot of top soil, just a light cover of rocky dirt then granite.
But will and can drive as much copper into the ground and run a 10 gauge wire to it but it isn't going to be anything like 9 feet. Like I said it might be 21/2 if all goes well. I don't know if that's enough but I would be using a jack hammer to get it any deeper. |
Sanddiegoduner
Junior Member
Username: Sanddiegoduner
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 3:09 am: |
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Bob I know what you mean about the rocks in the dirt but you just have to pound a good ground rod in. I blasted 3 of them into the ground with a 3 pound mini sledge. I used a pipe with a bolt in the end that would slip over the ground rod to keep it from flairing out. I hit at least 2 large rocks as per ground rod and I just pounded my way through. I'll probably pound in another 3-4 more just to make sure my equipment is grounded the best it can be. |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 123
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 1:25 pm: |
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Sanddiegoduner No it's not rocks its bedrock. I live a couple of miles on the up slope of Sugarloaf Mtn.(over 11000 feet). in the San Bernardino Mtn's and there is no topsoil up here. Big Bear Valley has some top soil but if you have ever been here camping you know how rocky the valley is. Or if you back to the camp grounds look at the side of the road. I would post a picture if I could find one here but the top soil is so shallow that when you go down the road and look over at a cut along the side of the Mtn. you wonder how trees grow here. It's not just a few rocks it's solid granite and every minor earthquake we have anywhere in the area feels more powerful than it is because of it. Since you’re in San Diego you probably know about Big Bear the Ski slopes are reinforced with imported dirt and straw before the skiing season begins. Like I said above to get any deeper you would need a jackhammer literally. http://justbearly.freeservers.com/offroad1.jpg
THis is just a picture of one of the dirt trails going up the mountain take a look I think you'll get an idea what I'm talking about. |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 931
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 2:58 pm: |
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You guys make me feel really bad about the whining I was doing when I put my three 8ft ground rods in. Two on the tower and one for the Imax and equipement station. NO rocks. Just hard ground, but I still waited until Winter time when the ground was soft... I only held the rod while my sone stood on a 6ft ladder and HE did the pounding. It wasn't hard at all!  |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 128
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 4:20 pm: |
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Ca346 prety good wish I had a son to hammer this puppy in. I'm hoping to get another 2 and a half feet. I know it's not much, but in these conditions I'll be really lucky. And in the winter well I guess you figured that one out. The ground doesn't get soft it freezes. But I can get the water hose out and soak an area like I did before and just pound away until the pipe breaks and run a wire to that. Since we don't have lightening striking the ground around here I was told that should be enough, but I know there are always going to be people saying other wise. That picture is a road up the hill about 2 mile from where I live but shows an example of how deep the top soil is around here. If I took a picture of my street you really couldn't tell because people have loose rock in the front yards instead of grass, because planting and tilling soil is a more work than I can tell you. We have redwood chips in out front yard and rock in the back. My wife would love to have a garden, but when she tried to put a small garden in she ended up having a potted garden and it didn't work out too well either. Oh well I wish there was an easy solution, I know when I lived in Michigan the ground was no problem durring the summer. You could pound an 8 foot pipe after a rainy day without hardly breaking a sweat but as you know the mountains in Ca are made of rock. Think about Yosimite the valley has some top soil but the mountains around the valley are just plain rock. Well I beat this dead horse to death I only wish I had enough top soil to drive a good ground in 8 or 9 feet.
Peace to all
Bob |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 933
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:52 pm: |
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Bob_P:
You are higher than I am. I'm at 1300 Elev. Above the fog and the smog, but below the snow line. I'm tucked up against the foothills and most of the big boulders are up above me. When I bought this place, I had no idea how great it was for DX to North, West and East. South is a mountain. |
Tech548
Moderator
Username: Tech548
Post Number: 219
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:37 am: |
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Bob
This may sound silly to you but what type and brand of antenna are you grounding? Metal or Fiberglass?
Jeff.
Tech548 |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 132
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:19 am: |
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Jeff I just bought an I-Max 2000 that should be here with in the next week. Right now I have an A-99 and it doesn't tune anymore, and the rings are set at the bottom just so I can get a usable SWR on most of the 11 meter band. It does drop down to 12 meters but who cares about 12 meters. Anyway it's a fiberglass I-Max 2000
Thanks again Jeff
Bob |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 133
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:29 am: |
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Ca346 too bad you don't have a window south. Every once in awhile I get into the Bay area and further north. But living up against a mountain you probably know what it's like up here at my elevation. The mountains here are solid rock or have very shallow top soil. As far as being at 7200 feet I know it helps me get out. I've run barefoot and made some great contacts. I did have a Palomar 250 with a Cobra 148 GTL and that really did the trick.
Good luck DXing
Bob |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 936
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 6:01 pm: |
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Bob_P
You never know the way the band has been operating the last few months. I have been talking to people closer than usual. Sometimes I switch to a ground mounted 32ft high multiband antenna I have and it will get over the mountain.
What call do you go by? I'm usually on 27.385MHz channel 38 LSB as CA346... |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 139
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 6:58 pm: |
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Ca346 I am ussually at 385 LSB too, and go by Southern California 125. It would be cool, right now I'm fighting with my set up, over heating radio and antenna won't tune. But should be back up this weekend if things go my way for a change.
Hope to hear you out there
Bob |
Crackerjack
Intermediate Member
Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 233
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 9:29 pm: |
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Regarding duplicity of a ground, I look at it that way.... What can it hurt? |
Pig040
Advanced Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 549
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:24 am: |
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Hey Bob P. I talked to you like three days in a row last week, I go by 832 Roswell NM. Had a long qao with you one day! You sounded great, good audio, and good signal, I was in the mobile so I couldnt tell you just what the signal was. As far as your ground goes, what I did here in the desert since the water table is low, is I ran a 1/4 inch drip line to the ground rod to insure good ground.
Rich |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 146
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:00 pm: |
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Thats great Rich, very cool. I was using the radio for a few days and then found out it was getting hot, and really haven't used it since. But I remember talking to Roswell NM. I'll look in my log book but you'll be the second CEF member I've talked to. I do remember talking to a great sounding mobile out in NM too. I wish I had kept notes on my contacts.
And thanks for the advice on the ground.
Bob
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Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 291
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 11:31 pm: |
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Just to close this out I ran a #10 solid copper wire from the antenna to a water spigot in the back yard. So it goes underground and not directly into the house. Then took a six inch piece of copper pipe hooked everything in the shack to that using #14 solid copper wire and ran a #10 solid copper wire from it about 5 feet to an galvanized steel pipe used to run electricity out to my shack in the back. If there is a problem with this grounding set up please let me know
Thanks in advance
Bob
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Pig040
Advanced Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 567
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 10:05 am: |
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Dont forget Bob, the water pipe can in some cases resonate signal, so if you start having trouble with tvi, that'll be it. Dont know why sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt.
Rich |
Bob_p
Intermediate Member
Username: Bob_p
Post Number: 292
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 11:43 am: |
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Thanks Rich. I wasn't aware of that. I sure don't need anymore problems with this new station, man I thought putting a new station up was going to simple. It's wierd that when I switched from that copper tube pounded about 3 feet into the ground my SWR went from 1.1.1 arcrossed the 1.2.1, but dropped up at 29.700 from 3.4.1. to 2.3.1., and 29.000 2.0.1 and now at 28.500 it's just under 1.5.1
73
Bob |
