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Message |
    
Parts_man
Junior Member
Username: Parts_man
Post Number: 43
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 9:38 pm: | 
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Is the RG-213 that Copper sells dielectric or foam insulated? Going to put up pdl-2 and in instructions it says to use foam insulated due to deterioration of dielectric coax.
The instructions also said the length should be multiples of 14 feet for foam insulated.
Answers to these questions will be appreciated.
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Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 2073
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 12:00 am: |
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Parts man,
The 213 U coax that Copper carries is a Polyethylene Insulated wire.
It is made / manufactured by Superior Insulated Wire Corp. Which started in 1945.
It will work with your PDL-2 with NO PROBLEM's.
I use it with my SE White Lighting Quad, (like your pdl-2 but bigger) and have used it for years with every kind of antenna made and Never had a problem.
I use it and would guess I have sold over 5000 500 ft rolls of the Superior Wire Radio Coax and the Rotor Cable over the years and never had one person come back with any problem's.
As for the 14' use what you need and you antenna will not know the difference.
CEF 156 & CEF 159 have put my beams as well as my 2 meter antennas and my 305 10-11 Meter up. All have Superior Insulated Wire.
I have NEVER measured the Length of Coax on any of them and they all work GREAT!
NOTE! the key here is to get your Antenna SWR Set before you ever put it up.
I run the coax from the antenna's to the radio's, Set the Antennas and SWR is a 1.1 to 1.4 across the bands on all of them.
Same Specs as Belden but much more reasonable in price.
Just my 2 cent's worth.
Lon
Tech808 |
Parts_man
Junior Member
Username: Parts_man
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 6:15 am: |
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Thanks Lon, I will order the 213 next week when I know what I need. |
Pig040
Intermediate Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 370
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 10:04 am: |
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Lon, in the instructions for the PDL 2 it tells you to use 4 foot increments on your coax, dont know why, but that is what it says. I have often heard the 3 foot rule from the old operators, is that an old wive's tale or is there a basis for it? |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 2075
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 11:13 am: |
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Pig040,
I believe the basis for this is: 3' is an even divider of 36' a ground wave.
18' = 1/2 = ground wave
36' = 1
54' = 1 1/2
72' = 2
My Personal thought's are to go as HIGH AS YOU CAN!
Take the EXTRA time to get your ANTENNA SWR set as LOW as you can!
If your Antenna is tuned to the Very Lowest SWR you can get, 1 or 2 foot will not even make a noticeable difference.
Most Pre-Made jumper's come in Mutiples of 3 and use this rule.
NOTE!
Tech833 has far more Knowledge on Antenna's and Coax than I do.
Antenna's & Coax are his field of Expertise and he works daily with Coax & Antenna's!
Maybe he can answer this better than I can.
Lon
Tech808
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Pig040
Intermediate Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 374
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 10:18 am: |
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Thanks Lon, appreciate the opinion. I just wondered, this one place I used to buy coax had a big chart on the wall with the 3' increment thing used. I didnt go by it though my long run is 210ft.
Rich |
Dindin
Member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 53
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 7:45 pm: |
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Rich,210' is a multiple of 3'! |
Pig040
Intermediate Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 377
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 10, 2004 - 10:39 am: |
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Duh, you are right, public school education, what can I say. Sure didnt do it on purpose though. that was the minimum length that would reach! |
Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 283
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 5:21 pm: |
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pig40, What kind of coax do you run 210ft?
Roger |
Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 284
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 5:23 pm: |
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Lon 808,
How far are you running the 213U coax from your base to antennas?
Roger |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4876
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 6:34 pm: |
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Roger,
On our SE White Lightning Quad 4, I have 2 runs for the VERT & HORZ that are both right at 100' from Antenna to the MFJ Switch box inside of shack.
On our the IMAX the run is roughly 85' to 90' from IMAX to Switch box.
On ANTTRON 2/6 Meter Antenna the run is roughly 55' to 60' to radio.
All of the Coax including all Jumpers inside of shack is SIW RG213 95% Shield Coax.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Usa2112
Junior Member
Username: Usa2112
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 7:04 pm: |
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I seem to remember the term mil-spec as identifying coax with a noncontaminating jacket.What happens is that the chemical composition of the outer jacket breaks down and migrates through the foam dialectric contaminating the center conductor causing breakdown/corrosion of the center conductor.Or someone told me so an ion ago! |
Usa2112
Junior Member
Username: Usa2112
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 7:07 pm: |
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Having said all that is Copper's coax mil-spec rated as Belden's 2213 is? |
Pig040
Advanced Member
Username: Pig040
Post Number: 688
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 10:46 am: |
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Roger,
My 210 ft run was made of 213, I was suprised that it worked as well as it did. Sometimes I made gp contacts that were better that the flat side beam contacts with it.
Rich |
Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 285
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 1:43 pm: |
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Thanks Lon 808 and pig40,
I am getting ready to buy coax for spring and like I said befor I need to run 150 ft and just dont know what i`m going to do yet.
If pig40 got away with 213 then I might too.I am never sure of myself so my metality is to get the best first if I can afford it then not worry about it later. If I can talk my wife into letting me put radio in living room then I could cut the run down to 100ft or if my garage was heated I culd put radio in there and cut the run down to about 60ft, but I dont have heat for winter use and no airconditioning for summer use.
Thanks for your answers,
Roger |
1861
Member
Username: 1861
Post Number: 77
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 2:53 pm: |
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AIRPLANE 1 , WHAT PART OF PA. ARE YOU IN ? I,M OVER IN SOMERSET COUNTY . I BOXED OF A 10 X 10 FOOT CORNER IN BACK CORNER OF MY GARGAE WITH 8 FT CEILING . CAN KEEP IT WARM WITH SMALL ELECTRIC OR PROPANE HEATER . MIGHT TRHINK ABOUT THAT |
Mrbigshot
Junior Member
Username: Mrbigshot
Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 3:18 pm: |
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always use the highest quality you can afford on runs over 50'. using rg8x (mini-8) you will suffer a 1db loss over 213 and 1/2 db over rg8u. think of it this way, its $1.50 per 50 foot to go up to rg8u over rg8x and like another $1.50 to go 213. its worth the piece of mind in doing do. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4892
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 3:36 pm: |
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Mrbigshot,
You are 100% correct use the BEST coax that you can afford and it will last for many years. 
The more you spend now the less you will have to spend later when replacing or uprading it later.
Mini 8/U ~ .16 ft / 500' @ .12 ft
RG8X MINI 8 95% Shield Coax
8/U ~ .28 ft / 500' @ .25 ft
RG8UW 95% Shield Large Coax
213U ~ .34 / 500' @ .30 ft
RG213 95% Shield Coax
Copper has some GREAT Prices on Coax. 
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 286
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 1:23 pm: |
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1861,
I live in Lebanon county PA.Building a small room in garage sounds good, I have a quad now so I would need two coax runs so it would be probably as cheap to build as running two 150ft of expensive coax. how do you keep it cool in summer?
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Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 287
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 1:31 pm: |
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Hi Lon,
If I build a room in my garage I will buy a spool of 500 ft 213 just so I have some extra.I can use the 213 instead of expensive coax. If I buy that amount of 213 can the unused be stored for a long time? Can you tell me about shipping a spool to zip 17038? Thanks,
Roger |
1861
Member
Username: 1861
Post Number: 78
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 3:05 pm: |
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i put a small window oppoisite my door , in summer , my garage is usually cool anyway , but if it gets too warm , i oppen the window and door and run a fan to draw air through the room . i chose corner that way i just had to frame in two walls and a ceiling . gets me out of the house - regardless of weather . lol |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4932
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 7:10 am: |
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Airplane1,
I will have to wait until Monday so I can call Customer Service for you to get a shipping quote.
Will it be Pre-paid or COD?
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4941
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 2:15 pm: |
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Airplane1,
The Shipping cost for 500' of
C60-00012 RG213 95% Shield Coax
to Zip Code 17038 would be:
Pre-Paid: $29.88
COD $36.88
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN
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Usa2112
Junior Member
Username: Usa2112
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 9:03 pm: |
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hmmm,the question I asked was overlooked,is Copper's Coax mil-spec rated? or maybe I overlooked the answer but I don't think so. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4950
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:36 am: |
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Usa2112,
Since I am not 100% sure I will call S.I.W. / Superior Insulated Wire Corporation in the morning and find out for you.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 290
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 8:24 am: |
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Thanks Lon, That is not to bad for a roll of 500ft coax shipped. I thank you muchly for you help.
Roger |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4952
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:42 am: |
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Roger,
Glad to be of help.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4962
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 6:51 pm: |
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usa2112,
Ok, I now have the information you asked for.
After speaking with S.I.W. today all of the S.I. W. coax is manufactured to the Mil Spec Standards.
With the exception on the Non Contaminating outer casing which is called for in MIL-SPEC.
But they do make a coax with the Type 2 Non Contaminating jacket if needed that is like the bury flex coax that is 100% to Mil Spec that is designed to be buried if needed.
The RG8U / RG213U and the RG8x95 that copper carries all have the same except specs called for in the Mil Spec Standards except the outer casing.
Since 99% of the people using Coax DO NOT Bury it there is no reason to add the extra cost onto the price by adding the Non Contaminating Type 2 jacket onto the coax for general use.
It meets the exact: Size Requiements, 50 ohm,
OS Diameter, correct 13ga 7 Center Strands, Copper Wire, Temp, Die Electric, 95% Shield, Polyethylene, as called for in the Mil Spec Requirements.
After learning this today is makes the S.I.W. Coax that Copper Electronics carries an even better buy for the Copper Customers.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 387
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 7:12 pm: |
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Parts Man the 213 typically is not foamed and therefore is stiffer. Avanti probably recommended the foam type, because it is softer and is much easier to rotate with a beam installation.
213, is stiff but is very good coax. |
Usa2112
Junior Member
Username: Usa2112
Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 10:56 pm: |
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Hmmm,no non-contaminating jacket? Now maybe i'm wrong,I thought that happened once,but I was just mistaken,but the jacket is also broken down by ultra-violet light(sunlight), and hot to cold atmospheric changes(a Chicago minute!)and could migrate through the dialectric contaminating the center conductor.Though at a slower rate then being buried. This is just my edjumicated opinion.Hmmm,I seem to also remember something about higher power limits also causing quicker breakdown due to heat transferance,enhanced by impedance mismatching. |
Jtment
New member
Username: Jtment
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 6:21 pm: |
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I'm wanting to relocate by base from the garage to my office. I'm currently using almost all of 150' of coax. Does anyone know if by adding another 100' will have any affect on match or? |
