| Author |
Message |
    
Cobra0020
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 11:17 pm: | 
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How Good are the signal Engineering Beams. I am thinking of getting a 2 element quad from them. Buy i can get one from maco for alot cheaper. How do the maco and Engineering Beams Compare.
Thanks
Cobra |
Tech833
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 1:32 pm: |
|
The Signal Engineering 2 element quad is an outstanding antenna. From tests I have performed, the Signal Engineering quad will outperform the PDL II.
Other things to consider: The PDL II was sensitive to mounting support structure within the field of the driven element and reflector, the Signal Engineering quad is not. In support of the PDL II, it is made mostly of aluminum while the S.E. is made mostly of fiberglass rods and insulated stranded wire. If you were to coat the fiberglass rods with white auto primer, then it will outlast a PDL II which uses molded plastic insulating and mounting components. Molded plastic will dry out whether it is coated or not.
Gain wise, the PDL II and Signal Engineering Lightning are similar. However, the feed system of the S.E. quad is a little more efficient and less likely to distort the radiator's pattern.
Finally, the Signal Engineering 2 element quad is still available while the PDL II is not. Similarly, the Hyundai is still available while the Yugo is not. That sums it up. |
Cobra0020
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 5:44 pm: |
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Thanks Tech833, you answered my question. |
Hoosiercardinal
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 2:30 am: |
|
833
How broadbanded is the SE compared to the PDL? |
Tech833
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 12:47 pm: |
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About the same. Neither antenna is going to be as broad as an Imax or A99, so be prepared for that. However, the SE beams and the PDL II will both give good VSWR (below 1.5:1) across the entire CB band. You would have to re-tune either antenna to use in the 10 meter band. |
Snapperhead
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 10:31 pm: |
|
Hey guys, I'm going to put up my 2 element SuperHawk quad real soon.....and had a few questions on the guide wire aspects of it....I started building my quad the other day. Didn't get a chance to finish it. Man those instructions aren't the greatest as well as the pictures in the Docs...Anyways, I'm going to put it on a 36ft pushup pole mounted on the facia of my house with two sets of guide wires....Question: Do I need to run egg insulators on my guide wires?? Is it a must or not.....And if so, what would the spacing be on them.... also I have my I-max 2000 up on another pushup pole about 20ft away from where Quad is going to be...Do you think my I-max will interfer with it in SWRS and all that jazz...One other note, from the bottom arm of the vertical fiberglass rod. what is the minimum clearance from the pitch of the roof I can go for optimum performance....Any info from any of you antenna pro's out there would be nice..Thanks |
Tech833
| | Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 12:36 am: |
|
The Super Hawk does not require that you insulate the guy wires as long as they are not right in the field of the wire elements. If your guy point is 5 feet or more below the boom, forget about it.
Insulating guy wires is simply a way to make them 'invisible' to the RF. In order to do this, the insulators must be less than 1/4 wave apart. In other words, you would need to have an insulator at least every 8 feet or so in order for them to be effective.
20 feet of separation from the Imax should be adequate. You will see some interaction as you turn the Super Hawk, but it will be negligible.
Keep the Super Hawk above the roof for rotation simplicity. As long as the antenna is above the roof, it will have little to no effect on the antenna performance. The Super Hawk is not a picky antenna. |
Snapperhead
| | Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 9:05 am: |
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Awsome,,,,,Thanks for advice.....I'll keep you posted on my final results after erecting it and overall performance.......73's |
Justpassingthru
New member
Username: Justpassingthru
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 11:44 pm: |
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Phil, this is Guy (no doubt). Waving a hand from Salem Oregon, just wanted to say howdy. We run channel 3 up here on week-ends. Take care. |
Stealman
Junior Member
Username: Stealman
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:40 pm: |
|
I JUST GOT MY WHITE LIGHTNING TODAY HOW HARD IS IT TO PUT TOGETHER THE INSTRUCTION LOOK HARD |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 853
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 9:14 am: |
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Take your time. Don't rush. Put it together over concrete if you can (you WILL drop screws and they are hard to find in the grass), follow the directions, and above all, when you are done, double check the SWR with it off the ground IF possible. Did I say TAKE YOUR TIME? You are going to be amazed how light it is. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 2831
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 12:05 pm: |
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Stealman,
Also another Helpful TIP is to Pre-Drill the Holes for the Screws on the Fiberglass Spreaders with a very small drill bit.
Count all of the parts before you start.
Also if you cannot assemble it on concrete, paint the screws and washers & nuts red or orange as them things are little and easy to lose.
A friend or two will be a big help in assembly.
OH, and like Ca346 mentioned, TAKE YOUR TIME!
DO NOT FORGET TO SEAL THE VERT & HORZ COAX ENDS "GOOD" AFTER YOU GET THEM CONNECTED TO THE ANTENNA!
Ca346 and myself both Own and use the SE White Lightning Beams and Love them and the Performance! 
Lon
Tech808 |
Stealman
Junior Member
Username: Stealman
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 2:36 pm: |
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thank for the tip i can't wait to hear you in dx land |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 314
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:24 am: |
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Hey guys, I have heard from several owners of SE Quads that they have some trouble tuning both the ver/hor to be real good. It is said that one side or the other comes in pretty easy, but you may end up living with the other out of wack a bit. How has your experience been in this regard?
I have never owned or worked with one of these quads and it might be said that I cannot possibly know anything about one because of this fact, but I may have a tip that is worth considering when tuning.
I am not sure where this idea came from, it may well be in the docs. So, let me know if this topic is referenced in the docs or not, please. I have asked other owners this same question before, but have never had any feedback. I would be interested to know if this problem is typical in these antennas. I believe this is true of both the 2 and the 4 element Quad antennas made by SE. |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 862
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 9:30 am: |
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It's sure true of mine. The Vertical SWR is fine but the Horizontal is too high. I have not climbed the tower to adjust it again; I use a tuner on that side. As far as I know, I set them both the same when I was putting it together. |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 317
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:28 am: |
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Thanks Ca346, I guess it is true. Is this problem discussed in the docs? I think there is a solution, but I would like to know if the docs discuss the tuning and if this problem is noted. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 2855
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 10:50 am: |
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Marconi,
I just checked our SE White Lightning 4
HORZ:
Channel #1 ~ SWR 1.2 / Channel #20 ~ SWR 1.1 / Channel #40 ~ SWR 1.2
VERT:
Channel #1 ~ SWR 1.4 / Channel #20 ~ SWR 1.3 / Channel #40 SWR 1.4
Lon
Tech808 |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 756
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:45 pm: |
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You can adjust both polarities to be the same. If you simply use the measurements they give you in the instructions and do not fine tune, they will probably not be the same.
Your support pole, wiring, cable routing, etc. all make some difference in SWR adjustment. As with any beam usually. |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 863
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 2:41 pm: |
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I did my actual adjustments when it (Lightning4+) was sitting on two 6ft ladders. Obviously not very high off the ground. I measured the matching wires pretty close, but obviously not close enough. I only adjusted them once up on the tower. Also, as others have indicated here in other threads, the SWR goes up as I increase the power.
The birds seem to love my antenna as much as I do, so they may be walking all over it also! |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 757
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 9:27 pm: |
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If your SWR increases with power, you have some reactance to tune out. |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 318
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 12:49 am: |
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Well, I guess them boys just didn't have what it takes to get them SE's tuned right, and all they had to do was follow the docs. Boy howdy.
Has anyone here ever put an analyzer on one of these beams? |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 864
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 4:40 pm: |
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Nope. Don't know anyone close who has an analyzer |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 760
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 6:00 pm: |
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Do you mean an antenna analyzer or a GR bridge? Umm... Can't remember. Maybe. Not that I would remember what it said anyway. |
Stealman
Junior Member
Username: Stealman
Post Number: 14
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 2:20 pm: |
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Do i need to attach egg insulators to the guy wire keep in mine I am using a push up pole |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 865
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 8:42 am: |
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Stealman:
SE told me they reccomended at least 7ft from the tips of the spreaders to any metal objects, so yes, use insulators. On the push up pole...., not sure you can even get it in the air with a push up. It's not the weight; it's very light. It's the size. It's way too big for a push up pole. It's bend your pole in two... |
Stealman
Junior Member
Username: Stealman
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 6:47 pm: |
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ok the pushup pole is out i just bought a fifteen foot mast and a five foot tripod and guy wire from ronnard tower if i guy wire everything down will i be ok i was told that this would work |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 319
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:40 pm: |
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Stealman, sounds like you are now planning to put the beam on the roof. You have to consider the guy wire angle necessary to clear the bottom of the SE beam so it can rotate and where the anchor points will end up. For the integrety of your roof it will not be a good idea to attach guy hooks on the roof's surface. In my mind, the integrety of the roof and these tripods can also present problems in installation. Something to consider.
If you guy a pushup pole really well and it is structurally adaquate, then they can be effective at supporting one of these beams and it gets it away from the roof of the house. Bad weather can cause you to worry a bit and lightning problems can be serious if on the roof of your house. |
Bullet
Intermediate Member
Username: Bullet
Post Number: 351
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 5:06 am: |
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just for fun, run about a kilo watt on vertical and place a watt meter and dummy load on the horizontal feedline comming back in the shack and see what it reads..
ive seen a few of these type of antennas both the fours and a six bring alot of rf back in the shack.
in one case 700 of the 1000 watts out came back in on the other polarizations feed line.
a fella a few miles from me here has the sig eng six element and his is doing this same thing.
ive made home brewed versions of this beam and didnt have this problem at 1200 watts i only had about 3 watts come in on the opposite polarization.
dont know why they are getting this but some are... try this and see. |
Bullet
Intermediate Member
Username: Bullet
Post Number: 352
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 5:36 am: |
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cobra there ok..
not out standing, but not to many people are making quads for cb that are in a reasonable price range.(so in that sence there good)
ive worked on some for people and they do ok but i wouldnt buy one myself. im not really that impressed with signals beams.
imo your limited to a fixed spacing on all elements. your stuck with a java scripted quad thats not easy to mod for better performance.
if your willing to study a little one can home brew a much better beam.
but as far as the 2 element quads go i would say the SE hawk is a good beam.
after that to each thier own. |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 871
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 2:05 pm: |
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Stealman:
I think you are going to be okay with your set-up. I put a pipe cap with a pulley in it on top of my mast (20ft) and I can raise and lower my antenna by the rope I threaded through it and leave tied to the tower. But if you have not started your installation yet, you DO need to be careful where you put your guy wires. AND If your roof mounted tower is supported under the roof and braced, you may not need guy wires. I have mine 2ft above the tower top and it is NOT interacting with the metal tower. And the 20ft mast is 3 ft into the tower. Obviously, the higher you put the antenna on the mast, the more strain (and torque) you are putting on it.
How's the antenna going together? |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 322
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 8:32 am: |
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Hey Ca346, how can you have a 20' mast with 3' into the tower and the antenna only 2' above the tower top? Is that antenna that big or do you have a lot of mast out above the boom? Is it the boom that is 2' above the top or is it the bottom of the lowest point on the antenna? Never seen one of these.
I would be interested to hear if you ever do get a chance to retune your antenna, how that works out. I don't doubt 808 in his efforts and good tune, but personally I find it hard to believe that you are as far off in your measurements as that would suggest in order to account for your lack of good tune on the one side you note.
As I have said, I have heard your story from several other owners of SE beams and I am curious as to why that is. I have studdied that antenna on their patent papers and I believe I understand a possible reason why you are having the problem, but 808's experience refutes this idea, and since he did not tell us he did anything special to get his tuned I have to believe, as he said, he just used the suggested measurements in the docs. That said however, I do not find the docs to be that specific.
Maybe you should have not tried to tune as you noted and just used the settings they indicated, whatever they are.
How say you? |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 2972
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 11:13 am: |
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Marconi,
When the White Lightning arrived the 1st Sargant and I followed the Assembly Instructions and put it together.
THe next day when everyone showed up we put it in the bed of our 4x4 on a 6' step ladder across the street.
I re-did the coax ends about 5 times until I was happy.
The instructions called for stripping 2 1/2 inchs from the end of coax.
I stripped 4" from the ends and doubled the shield back to mount to the boom and then cut the center back to 2 1/2" to mount to the Stub Wire.
Then silconed the open ends of the Vert & Horz coax GOOD.
If I even seen 1 single strand of shield come off on the shield when I stipped the coax I re-did it.
I then drove over to house and we handed it up to the Roof to Redman, Beerman, Raven and Homeboy.
There we adjusted the SWR with it tied to the tower.
Then they carried it up to the top and mounted it.
At first the elements were a little below the Tower. The SWR was pretty good to start with.
After a month and talking with 833, Redman and Homeboy climbed back Up and we added an extra 10' of reinforced piece of mast pipe piece of re-inforced mast pipe to the top to have the elements clear the top of the tower.
It worked great and had Redman make a slight adjustment to the vertical stub wire.
We took our time and did about 99% of it before we got it to the top of the tower.
When we added the extra 10' it raised the antenna elements above the tower and also helped to lower the SWR a little more and appeared to help.
We have had it up just about a year now and still doing great. 
Redman had a little extra coax at the top so he made the loop for turning the rotor at the top and then wrapped the coax maybe 3 times around the mast pipe above the tower and then down the tower. (see picture below)
All of the measurements in the instructions were dead on for assembly and we measured and re-measured everything 2 or 3 times to make sure everything was set correctly and TIGHT before taking it up the tower.
Our guy wires are 19' below the top of the tower.
Lon
Tech808 |
Ca346
Advanced Member
Username: Ca346
Post Number: 877
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 10:28 am: |
|
Sorry for the slow response. Been gone on vacation. A friend of mine says how can you go on vacation when you're retired? Isn't everyday a vacation? Yup!
My 20ft vertical mast is set 3ft into the tower. The 18ft boom of the antenna is bolted to the mast 2ft above the top of the tower. I have a 2M/70cm yagi at the top of the mast above the Quad elements. It is 7ft from the tip of the Quad elements to the 2M elements. I would post a picture, but can't get my pictures down to the size limits imposed by the forum. I'll give it another try tho...
I am sure the tower is the biggest cause of my SWR problems, but then as I said, I have a tuner, so it's not a problem. I have not been up the tower for a couple years...
 |
Quickdraw
New member
Username: Quickdraw
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 7:28 pm: |
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i have a se six and from my experience when i put it together with my friend who is somewhat of a electrical antenna guy, he took one look at the feed system and said no way.... junk. me being stubborn we put it together per specs and tested it with rf meter and a few contacts. you had to stand 2 feet in front of the beam to get any meter movement at all and as far as contacts, very limited. now he said let me design a feed system and we will try again next week.... i had to choose one polarity and i chose horz. antenna mounted same place, 5 feet off ground and took same rf meter and was standing approx 100 feet away from front of beam and pinned the meter.... turned the beam west and made several contacts in cal. with very strong reports..me being in baltimore was very impressed.... beam has been up for a few years now and floridas last big winds tore up my drivin element... now i he s no longer around so im going to try a 1:1 balun and direct feed... this beam is very narrow but has super power @100 watts. my shack is covered in qsl s from every part of this world and maybe another...lol have fun and see ya.... robert |
Dcrusty
New member
Username: Dcrusty
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 8:27 pm: |
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Hi Guys, I have been assembling a 2 element s/e quad. After changing out there junk hardware and reading there terrible instruction manual about five times the beams went together pretty well.The vertical swr is real good, but the horz is pretty bad and we can't seem to get it to move much when adjusting the coax down the brass tuneing rods. Has anybody else had this problem and has anybody found a fix for it.Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Archie |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 7413
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 8:59 am: |
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Dcrusty,
Sorry cant help you much on this one.
When the 1st Sargant and I assembled our SE White Lightning Quads we had no problems adjusting the SWR to a 1:1 on the Vert and Horz.
We took mast pipe and mounted the beams to it and then tied it to a fiberglass step ladder and took it across the street and grounded the mast pipe and was 30' from any other objects to adjust the SWR.
We set the SWR with the 2 ~ 100' pre-made lengths of coax we would be using to mount it to the tower.
It has never changed in well over 2 years now until we noticed a cut in the Coax here 2 weeks ago on the Horz coax.
The only thing I can think of to suggest is check your Coax again and the connection to the beam and the PL259.
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Dcrusty
New member
Username: Dcrusty
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2005 - 9:48 am: |
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Hi Lon,You gave me a couple of ideas,We have the beam on a 15 foot pipe tied to a wood post. I am using a 10 ft wooden step ladder to adjust, I am just tall enough to make the adjustments. But we have the hort. feedpoint about 5 feet away from a carport with a big metal roof.If it quits raining here we are going to move it out by itself.One thing that I found kind of odd was the vertical adjustment ended up about 3 inches from the end of the brass stub.When we tryed the hort. there the swr was terrible. Had to move it all the way to the other end of the brass rod to even drop the swr where it is at now (1.9 to 1 on ch 20)Going to call s/e this morning. Have talk to them before and all I got was the run around when I tryed to get some spec's on the measurement's of this thing.Thanks, Archie |
Dcrusty
New member
Username: Dcrusty
Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 7:40 am: |
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Well we have worked on the s/e two element quad for about 10 days now and we still are having a problem with the swr on the hort side.Called s/e and got no help at all. Tony told me he didn't know much about the electrical part of his antennas, and his antenna engineer was in the south pole????? We took the antenna back apart, restreched the driven element, remeasured all four stub wires to make sure they were the same.took are time and reassembled it, vert swr came in at 1:1 on channel 20 hort was just about the same place as were we started.We fine tune for about a hour and got it down to 1:8 to 1 on channel 20 Also s/e would not give me any kind of spec's for the element wire or the stub wires, my thinking was to recheck these maybe sombody goofed out there.If anybody has any ideas please post them my forehead is getting pretty sore from banging it on the garage door.Thanks!!! |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 477
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 3:05 am: |
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Hey DCrusty, its been a while.
You may have told us already, but I guess I missed it somewhere down the line or I just forgot.
Sounds like your beam is set great on the vertical side and not really that bad on the horizonal side.
If you had to call SE about the length, then does that mean you did not measure the length before stretching the wires or did you just wish to confirm that they were correct?
After you stretched the wires, what overall lenght did you use for the driven element being as you did not know what it was supposed to be?
Did you stretch the small wire between the feed points also?
Did you stretch all the loop wires? What did you do about them?
What about the feeder wires?
Did you ever get with the other member on this forum that had his beam near the ground, in order to get his measurements?
Eddie
Marconi |
Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 903
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 8:52 am: |
|
The S.E. wires should of already been
the correct length and pre-stetched by
S.E./ I had one up for about 1 month or
better and took it down and sold it. Had
some problems with the construction of these
antennas. And SWR problems after a large bird
sat on fiberglass rod and pulled rod out of
the hub./ With the high winds we get here and
winter weather conditions, i honestly do not
think these S.E. Beams would hold up very long.
Good Luck with yours! When working correctly
the performance is great! I just can't say
much good for the construction.
|
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 479
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 2:52 pm: |
|
RW, you're right on most counts, but several have told me that the wires are not pre-stretched well if at all, and one even said his stretched by as much as 8".
I would figure that could make a difference in tuning if not accounted for over the specs. If 8" longer, the tune frequency for the increase will drop to about 26.700 mHz. That is pretty far down from the center of 11 meters with an antenna that is already somewhat narrow banded.
If anything happens like this to the wire length while installed, like ice or a big bird, then a tuning problem is likely to occur.
This is for sure not in all cases, because 808 did not have any problems like this after the terrible ice storm that hit him. Did you see his pictures of the ice on his quad? He was lucky that it came back to as good as new.
You are correct, these quads are not suited well for that kind of weather.
Marconi
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Road_warrior
Advanced Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 906
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 8:35 pm: |
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When i bought mine S.E. stated that the
wires were pre-stretched and ready to go.
So, i never bothered to question them.
It performed great! I'm glad i sold it as
it would of ended up probably like Lons in
a few short years. These are made for much
milder climates with little wind. |
