| Author |
Message |
    
Swamper
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 10:46 pm: | 
|
ive done some research on the i max 2000 and the big stick.What id like to know is why do you guys seem to think the i max is better when i have found that the big stick has more db gain?.the i max 2000 is 5.1 the big stick is 12.5db gain.seems to me the big stick is a better antenna.dont you? |
Tech833
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 11:23 am: |
|
Those gain figures are inflated sales hype. I assure you that the Imax 2000 does NOT have 7.4 dB gain less than the Big Stick and will gladly back up my statement with my life savings.
I am currently working on a measurement detail for use by Copper Electronics which will be much more accurate. However, the details are yet to be worked out (I dropped the ball).
Let me inform you that using actual gain figures which are based on engineering and not a sales executive, the Imax 2000 has essentially the same gain as the Big Stick. If you add the GPK to the Imax 2000, then the Imax has slightly higher gain than the Big Stick.
For those who are new to CB, when doing your research, do not include the advertisements for antennas. Instead, learn the design of each antenna and use sound engineering practices to figure gain and performance. The ARRL antenna book is a good place to start.
Soon, we will publish a guide which will list the REAL gain of each antenna Copper sells, and some that Copper as yet does not. |
Swamper
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 1:13 pm: |
|
interesting but im not new to cb been in it since the 70s.i really dont know how they test the antennas with the db gain but, i want to make sure i do get the best antenna for the money.i look forward to coppers guide to antennas.hope you post it real soon as i need to replace my old antron 99 soon.thanks for the info 833.this helps me out lots...peace |
Swamper
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 1:15 pm: |
|
is there a web site i can find this info on for the arrl antenna book?.thanks again!
Swamper, I like these hard question's, go to link below:
www.ARRL.com
Lon
tech808
|
Buck
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 1:37 pm: |
|
I have had both antennas and I think the Imax 2000 out performs the big stick. I had a big stick for around 15 yrs and I really liked it. About three months ago I replaced it with an imax 2000 and I am glad I did...Dont get me wrong the big stick is a good antenna but if given the choice I would definatly chose the Imax and I highly recomend it to anyone |
Marconi
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 5:16 pm: |
|
Hey Buck, give us a little detail about the differences you found, that would be interesting. Did you have both antenna up and working, at the same time, when making your judgements?
Marconi |
Marconi
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 6:51 pm: |
|
Buck & Swamper, I may be wrong, but I believe the Army Big Stick, the Big Stick, and the Super Big Stick's are not the same type of antennas. I believe both of the BS's are vertical 1/2 wave dipoles. The Super would handle more watts.
The Army BS is an off-center fed antenna or an end fed, kind of like the A99 and Imax. The Army BS may also be a 5/8 wave antenna as well. If you will look close at the BS's I beleive you will find that they are two piece radiators.
Something to consider.
Marconi |
Buck
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 3:29 pm: |
|
Unfortunatly I did not have a chance to test them side by side...I have alot more dx contacts with my Imax. The super bigstick was a great base antenna and I regularly talked 40+ miles with it to check into the local sunday nite ssb net. The Imax seems to be a little quieter as far as noise in concerned and I have got nothing but good reports on it..Guess its just a matter of personal preferance....My super bigstick quit working and I thought I would go with something different this time...I sprayed my Imax with some clearcoat so maybe it wont deteriorate as fast as the super bigstick did....but hey it was up for 15 yrs with out any problems...guess if i stood out on a pole 50'in the air for 15yrs strait I might show some signs of wear too huh???? |
Swamper
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 5:39 pm: |
|
well i think out of the big sticks the army one is the best or the white one thats like the army big stick.i still dont understand one thing though about copper.why is it all the antenna tests are dont with the i max 2000 and none done with the big stick?..why not put the two up next to each other and have someone on a base some miles away see if theres any difference?.on coppers site it says the big stick is 12.5 dbi.but when you look up the i max 2000 on this site there is nothing about the db gain of the i max 2000.why is this? |
Tech808
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 7:23 pm: |
|
Swamper,
Let me try and Explain a few of things that might help.
#1 ~ I believe that all of us Techs/Moderator's live in different States.
#2 ~ Which Means we do not live in Louisville, KY.
Where COPPER ELECTRONICS, INC is located.
#3 ~ All of Us Tech's / Moderator's DONATE our time to try and HELP, we are not paid by COPPER for this.
#4 ~ We Donate our time when we can because we all want to try and help those who do not have the Knowledge / Experience that some of us have.
"THIS NOT NOT MEAN WE KNOW EVERYTHING!"
We just try and share what we do know about or have had experience with.
#5 ~ All of us Techs and Moderators have full time jobs that we also do besides helping out here on the Forum.
#6 ~ The REVIEW's that we do, We do when we have the time to put in to do them.
#7 ~ We Put in a FULL days work (8 or more hrs), then figure on time with the Family ( maybe 4 or 5 Hrs), then add checking into the forum several times a day and anwereing Question's and Helping when we can, (2 to 4 Hrs), OH' and then try and get some Sleep, and then get up and try and figure where the time went.
And THEN' we start all over again the next day.
#8 ~ Then figure on spending any where from 24 to 60 hours or more, Doing the Testing, Writing the Review's, Going back over them and making sure we didn't miss anything, then typing and submitting them for approvel.
The Tech's and Moderator's on this Forum try very hard to think of everything we can when doing these reviews.
Such as what Question's will people have, How does it Perform, What is the Quality of this item, How does it compare to other item's in the same class, and what are our honest opinions of it.
I am sorry but this does take time.
Yes, we would love to do reviews on every item that Copper carries.
But we also realize that it would also be impossible.
Every post to this Forum has to be Read and Approved by either one of us Tech's / Moderator's or by the Forummaster before it can be posted.
I spend betewwen 4 and 6 hours a day checking into this Forum. That does not include answering or trying to help answer question's, or e-mails to us with question's that are not posted to the forum.
If one of the Ads you read on a product does not contain all of the Information on that product, you have to realize that a person has to sit down and write the ad for that product then get it and the picture posted for everyone to see.
When you have as many items as Copper does that takes MAJOR TIME!
If you have ever made a web page, you realize this is not easy. BUT! it is easy to make a mistake and forget to list everything that you want to.
On the Imax Antennas: Read the Review, Read all of the POSITIVE COMMENTS on it from the Forum Members.
Then TYPE in the WORD IMAX 2000 or Whatever item you want information on in the SEARCH AREA.
These comments are posted so that everyone can read another's opinion on that product be it PRAISE or COMPLIANTS.
We TECH's and MODERATOR's try and do the best we can, and thats all we can do.
I AM NOT COMPLAINING, I VOLUNTEERED FOR THIS POSITION AND I LOVE IT!
I "ENJOY" helping where I can and when I can and I am sure all of the other Tech's / Moderator's feel the same way.
These are just my thought's.
Lon
Tech808
tech808@copperelectronics.com |
Swamper
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:24 pm: |
|
heres the link to the site that says the i max 2000 is 5.1 db gain.
http://www.wearecb.com/solarcon.htm
|
Tech833
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 3:21 pm: |
|
5.1 dB over what? How did they measure and calculate that? If I put up a web page that says "This Imax antenna was tested with laboratory equipment and found to have 13.7 dB gain" does that make it true? Only if you don't ask questions and hold people accountable for their answers.
Just because it is published on the web does not make it true.
I can remember when I was 4 or 5 wishing that my bicycle would grow a motor and become a motorcycle. No matter how hard I wanted it to be true, it never happened. I wish the Imax 2000 had 20 dB gain. No matter how hard I wish, it is not true. The Imax 2000 is somewhere in the low 3 dBd range. The antenna fairy or her webmaster cannot change that fact. |
Hawk447
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 9:45 am: |
|
Swamper, I can promise you that you won't be sorry if you buy the IMAX 2000. If there is a difference between the Big Stick and the IMAX 2000, you probably would'nt even notice it. Bottom line, you can't go wrong with the IMAX 2000. |
Swamper
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 7:44 pm: |
|
WELL im not saying that the i max 2000 isnt a good antenna im just saying that i want to buy the best one for the money.And i have narrowed it down to the i max 2000 or the big stick.i know not everything on the web is true,but it doesnt mean that all of its false.i still dont understand why copper will not tell you the db gain of the i max 2000 on there site but they will tell you the the big stick is 12.5 db gain this is very strange since they are selling both and copper seems to be pushing us to buy the i max 2000 and not the big stick so it seems. |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 8:42 pm: |
|
Swamper,
as said in previous post, chances are you will be happy with either antenna and hardly notice (if you could notice) any difference between the two. I own an IMAX 2000 and love it. I think think the ABS is super as well. Yes I understand what the advertisements say but as the techs say, and what Bruce has tried to tell people for as long as I have been on this forum, some things are just exagerated. Check this out, I own the IMAX but also a Radio Shack 1/2 wave base antenna (went to buy some fuses, they had it on clearance for $25, couldn't resist). Here is what is straight from THEIR supplied owners manual:
Solarcon IMAX 2000 - "dBI Gain - 5.1, Tested at 1 to 2 dBI higher than the best of our competitors".
Same book but Solarcon IMAX99 - "dBI gain - 8.2"
Radio Shack 10M Ham/CB Base Antenna - "Half Wave Gain - 9.9 dBI".
That is advertised claims I have quoted straight from the owners manuals. Shakespeare claims 12+dBI. If you want to belive those numbers, you can make that decision by the numbers. According to the numbers, my IMAX is the lowest. Hmmm...now that is interesting.
Tech833 is an engineer and a true antenna expert by profession. What he does for Copper is for free, on his own time, to inform us all of what is real and not advertisement hype. He was in process (I believe) of doing a test on the Shakespeare antenna a while back but I do not know if he has had the time to complete, or even get to it yet. Yes it will be informative I'm sure for us all.
I think whatever antenna you get, you will be very happy with it. The true operational differences are in reality, probably negligible. Would we all like to see the side by side comparisons?, heck you bet! But we must realize, this is one of the very few websites that at least provide some honest, professional reviews on products they sell, discounts for both forum members and subscribers, and do it for us, for free.
I guess I am thankfull for what we have and hopefully you can understand that we are lucky here. On the other hand, a side by side comparison would be nice...... hehehehe
Thanks Copper and each of you Tech's for all you do for us.
Alsworld |
Swamper
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 8:57 pm: |
|
well i think im going to get the i max 2000. Do you guys think ill notice any difference from going to the i max 2000 from an antron 99??? |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:30 pm: |
|
Swamper,
man I don't know if you would see a difference or not? I know between my 1/2 wave and the IMAX 2000 5/8ths wave, nothing locally was seen change wise. Skip??? well I seem to reach out and touch people more regularly but I can not honestly tell you that is because of the antenna swap or just wishfull thinking. Conditions drive that so much realistically. I bought mine based on the differences you can find under the subscriber preview section. It sounds so much better, and I am happy with it for sure, but would you notice I difference? I would be lying to you if I had an answer for that one. Sorry man, I don't.
Maybe if your Antron99 is real old???? I think I'll leave that up to the experts. Tech 833?
Good luck Swamper in your shopping.
Alsworld |
Swamper
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 1:27 pm: |
|
Yeah my antron 99 is kinda old about 12 years old,so i think its about time i get a new antenna.i max 2000 here i come.lol |
Tech833
| | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:22 pm: |
|
Yes, you will notice a difference between your A99 and an Imax 2000 (when mounted exactly the same). You will not notice a difference between the Imax 2000 and a Shakespeare ABS UNLESS:
If both antennas are mounted very low to the ground (under 20 feet at the base) the ABS would seem to work better.
If you added the GPK to the Imax 2000, it would seem to work better than the ABS.
I can't be any more clear. My sister's 3 year old here said he understood just fine. |
Tech808
| | Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 11:02 am: |
|
833,
Question?
Any chance your sister and her 3 year old can move to Central Illinois? 
We need a "GOOD" tech to help out at the shop.
Shirley / 1st Sargant has printed your Review on the Imax 2000 and keeps it here for customers to read whenever they have question's about it, including the Actual DB Gain and Performance.
Sure saves us a lot of time. GREAT REVIEW!
Lon
Tech808 |
Mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 3:37 pm: |
|
I believe the Imax 2000 is one of the newest antennas to come down the pike in awhile for 11 meter use. It appears to work as good as anything out there but has the advantage of wider bandwidth. I think about the old tomato juice commerical now, "Wow, I could have had a V-8!"
mikefromms |
Skunkweed
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 7:17 am: |
|
Gain given for imax that`s bull. Try yagi or QQ antenna, you can feel real gain, not promises. I`m using 5 el long boom yagi optimized for gain and F/B ratio and it has real 12.4 dB over a dipole. Now I got Big Stick over yagi on 15m tower ant it works smooth. Mike
|
|
