| Author |
Message |
    
Hoosiercardinal
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 11:32 pm: | 
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anyone know anything about this amp?
seems it is a pretty rare amp because almost no one ive ever talked to has ever seen one let alone use one. |
Thunderbolt
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 9:56 am: |
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what tubes are in this amp? |
Hoosiercardinal
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 1:07 pm: |
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I think 20LF6s or 27lf6s i dont really know its not mine and i dont have it. |
2600
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 1:21 am: |
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It's rare because of "mushroom cloud" syndrome.
Ken-Rich, the folks who made the amp, got a real deal on European-made 27LF6 tubes, and bought a pile of these european-made tubes to build amplifiers. This was a really rugged tube, with little heat-radiator flags on the screen-grids and extra-thick glass. Just one problem. It was NEVER used in ANY TV sold in the USA. It only fit European-model TV receivers. The result, when calling the local electronics dealer, was confusion. He thought every tube ever made was on his price list. This one (27LF6) usually was not. Being a helpful salesperson, he would ask "Don't you REALLY mean 20LF6 ?, 'Cause that's all I have listed." The next move, putting 5 or 6 (or 7)20LF6 tubes into the amp would get really exciting. Think about putting 162 volts onto your normal 120-volt light bulb! It gets REALLY BRIGHT, but not for long. The amplifier would act like you had just bolted a supercharger to it, and slam the wattmeter, but not for long.
I had good luck with a big,fat 100 watt dropping resistor in a couple of the Eagle amps made for 27-volt tubes, dropping it down to 20 volts to use 20LF6 tubes. Those are pretty rare now, and expensive. Finding the original 27LF6 is really hit-or-miss. Checking the voltage on your amp is the only way to tell which tube it was built to take.
Some of the later Eagle amplifiers used six 20LF6 in a series string that totals 120 volts. These models just fed 120 volts from the power switch straight to this string of filaments. Saved them money on the transformer. This version is the REAL mushroom-cloud champ. They will run just fine on low side, but a tube will flash bright blue, and "POP" the fuse goes when you try high side. Don't need to explain why. The fix required adding parts the factory had skipped.
All in all, they are almost as good as a BIC lighter for setting fire to 100-dollar bills.
73 |
Tech671
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 5:19 am: |
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2600 you are just toooo funny  |
Hoosiercardinal
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 3:19 pm: |
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I didnt think it was all that funny though....... |
Hoosiercardinal
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 3:17 pm: |
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I dont understand what you are talking about 2600 too technical for me.. Anyways i talked to the guy and he wont sell the amp.. Oh well....
Ill just get a KLV 1000P |
Tech671
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 7:40 pm: |
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This was funny ...
"It gets REALLY BRIGHT, but not for long. The amplifier would act like you had just bolted a supercharger to it, and slam the wattmeter, but not for long." |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 8:06 pm: |
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I like this part also:
"This version is the REAL mushroom-cloud champ.
All in all, they are almost as good as a BIC lighter for setting fire to 100-dollar bills. "
2600, you got it man. lmao |
Tech671
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 5:52 am: |
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Yep, forgot that ...that was hillarious! You're too good 26. |
2600
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 10:20 am: |
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Hey Cardinal,
I never know how much detail to throw in on a 'tech' board. Trust me, I left out plenty. Maybe it's not smart for me to bad-mouth stuff like the Eagle base amplifiers. Almost like biting the hand that feeds me. We've done plenty of business over the years, patching them up to run. Add enough of the right parts, run it right, and you CAN get some use out of them.
25 years ago when the Eagle 1000 was made, there weren't that many choices to make buying a base amplifier. Most of them were built "underground", to escape the FCC. Notice the complete lack of a street address, phone number, or any such on the back of the cabinet. Low-quality design, and low-quality production were the rule, not the exception. IMHO, you're better off with HIM owning it, not you.
Most of the time someone who brings one of these in to be repaired has been using it for a while, and knows how to treat it. Kinda like playing the violin. If you already know how, it looks simple.
But if learning how costs you one or two sets of tubes, that makes a better-designed amplifier look less expensive in comparison.
The KLV amplifiers are made in a real factory, designed by real engineers. They include the parts that a box like the Eagle 1000 has to have ADDED to it. All factories produce the occasional "lemon". Buying a KLV doesn't eliminate the possiblity of trouble. It sure does improve your odds in a really LARGE way. And, no I DON'T sell amplifiers, so I'm not somehow obligated to say that.
Oh, and all you other guys, thanks. I like getting quoted. Sure, it's an ego trip, but a cheap one.
73 |
Hoosiercardinal
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 1:52 am: |
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Im not gonna say another word because the subject is dead. besides the KLV base amps are 100% better than alot of the junk out there thats 25 to 30 years old anyways. Im sorry guys if some of my opinions and comments appear to be biting and harsh but ive always been the type to "tell it like it is"... maybe if i would just go away you all would be so much better for it..
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Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 365
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 11:43 pm: |
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darn!!! i think i may have just bought a lemon!
i sure would be interested in learning what has to be done to these amps to make them run well.
matt |
2600
Advanced Member
Username: 2600
Post Number: 534
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 2:51 am: |
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Hi K.V.,
First, you need a supply of tubes big enough to replace the one or two that goes "pop" after running it a while.
The grid bias (negative polarity) has to be modified to keep the tubes from overheating.
The "Variable Drive" circuit is suicidal. The 2N3055 transistor wired to the Drive control has to be replaced with a higher-voltage part. TIP50 works okay. The "Drive" control and the zener diode connected to it are both suspect if the 2N3055 transistor has failed.
The "high" side voltage to run the tubes is around 1000 Volts. "Low" side is more like 500 Volts. Found it would last longer if the two driver tubes are fed all the time from the "low" side voltage. Takes about 15% to 20% off the peak output, but the driver tubes last longer. Lots longer.
And that doesn't take into account any stuff that may have failed from wear and tear, or from abuse, or even from (gasp) age. Anything that old that still has original electrolytic capacitors in it should have ALL of them replaced, whether the check okay or not. And a relay is a moving part. Sooner or later it will fail, too.
It's a lot like putting a 1972 car back on the road. You'll end up replacing some stuff just because it's too old. Other things will get replaced just because they are bad or worn out.
Unless you can get the tubes free, the bottom line for a project like this will look pretty expensive, compared to the price of a new amplifier of a similar size.
73
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Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 373
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 09, 2005 - 11:38 pm: |
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thanks 2600!
i knew getting into this that i might end up with a box of parts, but i got a good deal on the amp and its the first one i'll own. i like projects, and have rebuilt tube guitar amps before, not to mention the 77 f250 4x4 that ive got 85% restored.
im definitely into buying old things and making them work like new.
if i were to do what this amp needs done in terms of tubes, caps, and component upgrades, what kind of output can i expect. i understand that you can only ballpark here, just curious as to your experience with these.
thanks for the input.
BTW, do you do amp work if the price is right?
matt |
2600
Advanced Member
Username: 2600
Post Number: 538
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 2:04 am: |
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Hi Matt,
All of that kind of work we do is strictly "carry-in" (and out). That, and the customer has to supply any and all sweep tubes used in the repair. Got burned on too many of them years ago when the prices got really silly. Lots of folks are in the tube business. I'm just not one of them.
That, and I don't solicit business on CEF. Just common courtesy. My e-mail is on my CEF "profile" info, if you have a "business" question that isn't appropriate to post on CEF.
Thanks for asking, though. If you have gotten that far on a 28 year-old F250, at least you have some idea how extensive the job to bring the Eagle back to life could get. Depending on tubes, it wasn't unusual to see 1100 Watts PEP on high, and about half that on low side. Keeping the carrier below 150 to 200 Watts would treat the tubes fairly well on high side.
The Eagle is like most "sweep-tube" amplifiers. The tubes are run beyond their original ratings. The power rating for using that tube in a TV, for 12 to 18 hours a day is just over half the power you can get away with for a 30-second key, with a minute or more to cool down between.
This "hot-rod" level of stress on the tubes tends to weed out any that are "weak", compared to the rest. The other side of that coin is what happens when one "NEW" tube is introduced into a box with mostly old, used tubes. The new one, since it has no wear-and-tear on it will be "stronger". It will pull more than just ITS share of the load. Causes the 'new' tube to overheat, and go "KAPOW", if nobody notices before that point.
I always advise buying one extra tube for every 3 or 4 that are in the box. That way, if the amplifier "weeds out" a tube that is marginal after a week's or months' use, you'll have one on hand to put in its place and go. If you buy only enough to fill the sockets, you will be high and dry if it happens.
73
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Coyote
Intermediate Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 208
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 3:10 pm: |
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 "KAPOW" is a bad noise, isn't it?  I have to admit, there is quite a bit of humor in this thread. Thanks 2600.... I needed a chuckle on a Monday. |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 385
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 8:32 pm: |
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thank you so much for your help 2600!
i really appreciate being able to learn from your experience. i still havent received the amp in tha mail yet, but when i do i'll post as much info on the innards as i can. im kind of wondering if i'd be better off using the transformers, coils, and variable caps, to build a different amp. i dont know much at all about amp theory, but i can follow direcitons and follow drawings and schematics. some of the designs in the ARRL handbook look interesting.
you should know that i paid less than $100 for this amp so im not too disappointed if its destined to be a boatanchor.
thanks for all the help.
matt |
2600
Advanced Member
Username: 2600
Post Number: 544
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 5:32 pm: |
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A hundred bucks for a 25 or 30 year-old "pig in a poke", eh?
Too bad they don't come with an odometer like a car. At least you could guess how many "miles" might be left on it that way.
Fill us in when it arrives.
73
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Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 390
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 9:48 pm: |
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hey 2600! you must be pychic!!!
i just got the amp today and am cleaning it as i type! LOL
here's the layout. the entire thing is woodgrain covered aluminum except for the bottom which is bare aluminum. there are two meters one on top of the other on the left side. the top one is labled rel-watts and goes to 1000. the bottome one is plate voltage and plate milliamps. both meters say eagle on them. from left to right the knobs are load, tune, and drive. the switches are across the bottom and from left to right here they are: power, plate voltage/current, op/stby, hi/lo, preamp on/off, one knob for fast to slow break, spot tune on/off, a 1/4" jack for a cw key, and a two pronged female jack that looks as if a big crystal goes in it. i dont know what that one is. |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 391
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:19 pm: |
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sorry for the double post; my computer keeps resatrting and i dont want to lose my text.
here's the layout of the inside.
on the left theres a big transformer with a fan on a braket in front of it.
to the right of that are the five 20lf6's, they say made in holland on them and the brand name is Amperex. behind those is a veritcally mounted PC board with three big axial lead caps in a triangle formation on it. to the rear left of that PC board is a smaller PC board with two relays on it. in front of that are two more 20lf6's on a separarte PC board. i havent opend up the bottom yet but this should give you the general idea of what amp this is. the whole thing is woodgrain covered aluminum except the bottom which is bare aluminum. there is a ceramic disc cap with one end soldered to where the five resistors on top of the tubes meet the coil that goes to the PC board. maybe you can tell me where the onther end of this cap goes because its hanging loose right now. also all the resistors on top of the tubes have a piece of bare wire wrapped around them and it looks to me like this wire is shorting past the resistor but could it be some sort of coil?
the name of the amp is Eagle VIII. i would appreciate any and all advice, mods, anchoring ideas, LOL, and anything else you tremember about these. i know you dont think much of them but as this is going to be my first amp experiment, i'd like to know as much as i can about it.
thanks in advance.
matt |
Tech291
Moderator
Username: Tech291
Post Number: 144
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
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Kid,
CB Tricks has the schematic for your Golden Eagle,it will show you where to hook the capacitor back to(it connects to the tune cap and loading coil).Dont know what your background is in equiptment like this but I do want to warn you to be careful of the LETHAL voltages in this device.If your not sure of your abilities then seek the assistance of an expert.Just want you to be safe.
tech291
CEF#291
kc8zpj |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 395
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:23 pm: |
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thank you tech291!
my amp is just called "eagle VIII" i dont know if its the same on the inside as the golden eagle 1k or not. my background with tubes isnt that vast.
ive been a ham op for about 16 years and i used to run a swan tube rig. i got shocked by about 480 volts (low amps) and learned my lesson quick!
i am also a guitar player and have repaired and rebiased a couple of tube guitar amps. i am definitely in the learning stages of this stuff but i feel that i have enough basic knowledge to stay alive while i learn. too bad the darn tubes are so expensive! i always keep my 1969 ARRL handbook handy for reference and im starting to learn the theory behind these amps.
please keep the input and advice coming! it helps me a lot.
matt |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 830
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 12:13 pm: |
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Yeah KV, be careful in that thing. I could show you a picture of the burns on my right hand caused by an amplifier several years ago, but it's pretty gross.
I can't figure out which Eagle you have, but it sounds like a Kenrich with those 20LF6's.
One company made the Golden Eagle amps, then there was the Golden Falcon, and Kenrich made the Eagle 200, 500, 515, 750, 1KW and maybe some others. You said your's has Eagle VIII on it, VIII is roman numerals for "8".
Maybe you've got a 'straight eight', like the old Buicks.  |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 402
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 11:24 pm: |
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its heavy like an old buick!
yeah i think that its a weird name too. ive never heard of any others with roman numerals.
in one of my old "secret cb" books, there is a mod for an eagle 500 and it used 20lf6's in a similar fashion.
i dont think i need to see those pics but thanks for the visual. YUK!
it does seem to fit the criteria of what you guys describe as a "ken rich" amp.
i did find a guy locally that knows about them. now we'll see if i can actually meet him.
take it easy
matt |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 692
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 11:39 pm: |
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did i say on some other thread I THINK the eagle VIII is a maco clone??? |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 419
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 12:11 am: |
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man those tubes are pricey! i know, i know, i was warned, but i still want to get it working.
a source for tubes sited the 26LX6 as a sub for the 20LF6. can anyone on here either confirm or deny that this is an acceptable sub for use in this amp?
thanks to anyone who can or at least tries to help
matt |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 5586
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 9:41 am: |
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Kid_vicious,
Here is what I was able to find by doing a GOOGLE Search for 26LX6
26LX6 (use as excellent 20LF6 or 27LF6 sub you need to cut off pin 7 on some of them)
Hope it helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN
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Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 843
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:00 am: |
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Like Lon said, it looks like they would need to be modified some. The 20LF6 has a 12GW pinout and the 26LX6 has the 12JA pinout.
Here's the differences in the pins, and it would be nice if they would work, difference in price is about 65 bucks compared to 20 bucks.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/12GW_a.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/12JA_a.gif |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 425
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
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thanks to both of you.
i couldnt get the pics to work though.
yes it would be nice if they worked!
matt |
Hoskinmage
Junior Member
Username: Hoskinmage
Post Number: 48
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 8:40 am: |
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i have an eagle 1kw and i was wonering the same thing who made it and what year mine has 20Lf6 and i know its an old box but this looks like it was taken care of no spots and no chiped pain it looks like it just rolled of the line.if anyone has any info i would apreciate any and all info i could get |
Hoskinmage
Junior Member
Username: Hoskinmage
Post Number: 49
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 10, 2011 - 11:33 am: |
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I tried out my box and before I did I looked inside and it was clean just like it was fresh from the factory. Mine does 1300 watts (on a new dosey). Mine works fine and I have no complaints. I also run it with a home made ant. My friend "frosty" here in lincoln county had built me a brand new set of 4s and I was keying on people in Lexington, Kentucky. All I may do to it is to figure how to repaint it, it is already black and gold. My radio I use for it is an eagle 2000 its gold and black to, no my range 2995 is black with white letters. If any one knows how I could cover it up and paint it to. Could you please tell me more about this box, its an golden eagle -1 kw. and any pictures would be very helpful. Tubes ck out ok. If you have anymore info on these boxes please let me know and if there is any new way to paint it. My little box talked all the way to Australia so home made beams and a really hot box. All I key up is about 1/4 watt and its all swing. Thank you Copper for being there when we need you. I hope you spend several more years on here helping dummies like me. I mean it guys. (thank you so very much) |
Hoskinmage
Member
Username: Hoskinmage
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2015 - 10:58 pm: |
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Well 2 yrs. Of using my golden eagle 1kw it still hasn't missed a beat my still holds a flat 1200 no back swing it talks clean and I have used it to talk all over the world Ireland, france,Australia and a lot more places so I'm extremely happy no pope tunes still same tunes I got that was in it when I trained for it.ITS A WONDERFUL BOX I have it for years l.see if you take care of your boxes they will take care of you ♡♡♡ I love my box golden eagle 2000 driving a golden eagle 1kw |
Spiderleggs
Member
Username: Spiderleggs
Post Number: 55
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 20, 2015 - 7:54 pm: |
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Good deal. |
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