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Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 11:23 pm: | 
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I HAVE THE EXTRA HD TOWER AND THE TX2 ROTOR AND LOTS OF SMALL BEAMS ........PDL'S , M-1O3'S , V QUADS {STACKED} ... A REAL GOOD DX ANT.
HAS ANYONE OUT THERE GOT ANY 1st HAND EXP. WITH THE LARGER ANTENNAS ... 4-5-6-7 ELEMENTS OR EVEN THE LAZER 500 ?
HOW FAR DO YOU GO UP IN SIZE , BEFORE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH CHANGE TO MAKE IT WORTH IT ? |
307 (307)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 6:31 am: |
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Well , by my own experience with "giant" antennas , The rule is to keep it above 33 feet high. The higher you go, the better it is. I have an 80 foot tower and that is as high as I want to go. the trade off is really not that great. The "KEY" is the feed line , get a low loss cable to run from the antenna to the radio like Belden 9913F or similar. |
DavidPaul
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 5:42 pm: |
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I have a follow-up--which would have a better pattern--two 3-element yagis stacked, or one 6 element yagi? Which would have the smaller footprint? Same rotor to turn both, or will the longer boom on the 6 require more? |
307 (307)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 6:13 pm: |
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Well , The two stacked Yagi antennas would have a tighter pattern (pinpoint and narrow) and the single six element Yagi would have more forward gain because the power is not divided by two due to the co-phasing harness. I would go with the single myself. There is a lot more to this in the theory , however this is a simple way to look at it. |
onwatchman
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2001 - 9:06 pm: |
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Thanks for having this forum and responding to everyones questions its fantastic! Anyway my question is when purchasing a set of beams I noticed that different base antenna's have different power multiplication numbers Re/aVQ2-Quad has a power x 14 and like the super laser500 is 60x does this actually mean that whatever my little base unit(navajo432) is putting out(4watts)it would be 60x that re/240watts? Im new to the base station scene and was interested in upgrading from the antron99 which I have now. I was just curious what the power x was and how it worked. Also if you have the extra money to blow what is the best set of beams for transmit/recieve qualities? Thanks for your imput it is greatly appreciated! |
307 (307)
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 6:24 am: |
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That is correct , although those figures may not be as real as they seem. The more "Gain" (dBI or dbD) the antenna has the more radiated power the antenna will generate. The thing is that when you go "directional" you trim the power on the sides and form more forward power out the front.It is kind of like when a jet airline is flying in the rain. The water all around the front of the wing is sucked into the jet and a tremendous stream of water comes out the rear (only this would be backwards). If you have an antenna with 3 dB of gain , you multiply the power by watts X 2. (3 dB is twice the power). Lets assume you have an antenna with 6 dB of forward gain and a 10 watt radio (pending all 10 watts are getting to the antenna). The antenna would have a radiated power of 10 watts + 10 (1st 3dB (double the power)) = 20 watts + 20 (2nd 3dB (double the power again)) = 40 Watts ERP. The real funny part is that most of the "dB ratings" claimed by antenna manufactures is a picked calculated number and in most cases is not true. |
OnWatchman
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 9:32 pm: |
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Hey "307" thanks for the imput it was greatly appreciated. One more thing you could help me with,"which beams have the truest powerX table and who makes and sells them? If copper does I would be most glad to purchase them through you guys being as you all have the finest getup in the country! LOL Thanks again for your time to deal with all the newbies out there including myself. "73"...307
"Watchman"(Tn.)
P.S. Have any clues as to where I could find a decent "Elmer"? |
307 (307)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 7:40 pm: |
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In MOST cases MACO holds the market and are honest in the CB market. Watch Out when you look around...You look around at all the clowns making these super giant mobile "Terminator" type antennas that hold 20 Kw at 30dB. They are really 30 dB better alright but they do not tell you the reference they use was at -90....hehehe There is a guy here in Florida that bragged about all the magic dB his "----Built" antenna had. I blew him away when I unscrewed it and put a 102" inch whip in its place... |
Peddler
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 8:53 pm: |
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MACO M104c flat at 38 ft. I enjoy the heck out of it. Galaxy 2517dx with a Maverick 250. |
bullet
| | Posted on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 6:09 am: |
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for beams i use a 4 element quad on a 20 foot boom made from an old moonraker4 its both vert/horz.(like signal engineering's lighting4)
only longer for more gain.
watt for watt this will out perform ANY yagi beam
under 6 elements bar none!!
i run either a 142GTL,GALAXY SATURN,SATURN TURBO
1st two with eagle D104's,silver/nite. the turbo has a echo max2000 w/up and down buttons i installed. metering is done by a bird 43 for rms. switching is done by alfa delta 4 way switch and coax is times LMR400
amplifier-aint telling.haha later bullet |
onwatchman
| | Posted on Saturday, June 16, 2001 - 3:39 pm: |
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Hey is there anyone out there who could give me any info on how to build my own beams? I would like to give it a try. Like maybe some blueprints or material that would tell dimensions and parts lists. I would be greatly appreciated. I can be emailed at watchman@blomand.net
Thanx for all the insight, "Watchman" Tenn.. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 1:24 am: |
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OK, BACK TO THE SUBJECT ! I HAD a 3EL. "ASTRO Beam" 100FT to the Boom . I later put up a "5 el. "LONG JOHN" at the same hight , same coax "Belden". I regularly talked to my uncle about 50 air miles away; I gained only 1db on him , and I believed he was right, since I gained 1.5 on my recieve on him ! The Astro had a 1 to 1 match on all 40 "with some home brew tinkering with the hoop lenght & spread , & the 5 element had 1.2 on 1 & 1.4 on 40 "best" I got ! {gamma match}
Now I have PDLs at 60ft , but uncle is not on air now for a radio check . Does anyone out there have experience going from like a basic 3 . to a bigger ant. ... like 5,6,7,8 ? and were you glad you did , or was it not worth going too far up in size ? Was the TX & RE GREATLY improved ? And {most importantly} how big do you go, before the trade off is not worth the $$$$ for the ant, & huge rotator ? I'm thinking about a MaCo 6 .... ? |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 10:01 pm: |
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The rule on beams gain wise is this a 3 el is good for 6 dbd to get 9dbd you have to go to 6 el on a boom that is twice as long do not use your "S" meter as a reading they are next to useless the largets beams i ever put up element number wise was 4 stacked 17 el beams on 2 meters for moon bounce it had a gain of about 20 dbd so sadly on cb i would say anything over 5 el stacked probley will return little for your money there are many good books by the ARRL www.arl.org on antennas they will help you to understand them |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 11:15 pm: |
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one quick addition Jo Gun clames " AUDIO " gain there is no such thing MaCo amoung others is very high on the clamed gain Mr Yagi who was a japanee Ham worked many years on his ant and the NBS published gain figures for a given number of elements so if say MaCo clames 12 db gain for a 6 el beam it is just playing a numbers game like i said 3 is good for 6db 6 is good for 9db and 12 el would be good for 12dbd that is it and i dont care what you hear about any clamed ant gain they will be about the same el for element
bruce |
bullet/151 southern Indiana
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 12:28 pm: |
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watchman,go checkout
www.softcom.net/users/kd6dks/quad.html
this will give you all you need to know to build a basic quad beam up to 7 elements.some very good info here.if you can come up with a junk set of moonrakers youll be in like flinn. |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 6:20 pm: |
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Quads are very nice antennas ive used them all the way fron 6 meters to 1296 mhz bullet is right a 5 el quad will give you gain close to stack 5 el beams and because it is dc grounded less noise |
john
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 1:42 am: |
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I think maco makes wannabee antennas. Get a moonraker 6 if u want a maco 6, the moonraker is better peformance wise, and its just better. |
Taz
| | Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2001 - 1:38 am: |
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I run THE ORIGINAL AVANTI MOONRAKER4 on a 45ft tower with a klv-550 base amp. Mine is a great dx antenna and is perfect for local talk. I think the mooraker is one of the best beams ever made, i think maco's version of the moonraker 4, (the shooting star) is a pile of junk comapared to the moonraker, i have owned both. THE MOONRAKER BLOWS THE SHOOTING STAR OUT OF THE WATER. The moonraker is a good starter antenna cause its not to big, also the pdl-2 is a GREAT beam. (pdl-2 is a good stacking antenna cause of its size. also there both under $300 if you get them from the right place. |
Brian
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2001 - 12:02 pm: |
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I have a set of Maco M-106C's and I love them, I run a Eagle 525 and can be heard anywhere, the Eagle does right around 2 grand. So in honesty 2 grand times 50 is really 100,000 watts out the front door I think that's big enough. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2001 - 4:14 am: |
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10-4 ... I THINK A MaCo 6 WILL BE ENOUGH FOR ME AS WELL !
THANKS |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 4:31 am: |
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brian,im sure your loud as hell but your erp is no where near 100,000 watts. maco's very generous
with thier gain figures and so are cb type watt meters.im in no way saying that your not 10-8
as im sure your one of the top dogs in your location.just dont want ya to be mislead. |
bullet/151 southern Indiana
| | Posted on Thursday, August 30, 2001 - 4:51 am: |
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well for me personaly it would be a 27-28mhz
parabolic dish but my wife would say a PDL 2
is big enuff.haha
ive got a 4 element and a 6 element quad
the 6 still tweeking on it. but id love to
have one with more gain yet.i just finished a 2 element quad a week or so ago and put it up on the tower to give her a test run and she(my wife) didnt like it(women)? cant wait to see her reaction when i get that big un up! |
marconi
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 12:07 am: |
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Among several other factors to consider when considering to increase the number of elements is the proximity of the new larger antenna to other nearby objects such as trees, buildings, other antennas, high lines, etc.
Consider you have a good working three element and want to do better. You go with 4,5,6 elements and suddenly you sense that nothing was benefited. Aside from the obvious problems you could have with the complications of more elements, you may have simply increased the effects of the surroundings by a large measure and detuned your hopeful increase.
This lack of success is often blamed on may of the usual problems with beams, brand, construction or tuning. This factor can be hard to determine and often goes undetected.
Just something else to consider. To a larger degree height can overcome much of this type of problem and certainly being out in the open goes without saying.
Marconi |
bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 2:29 pm: |
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brian to get a gain of 50X you would need about 17 dbd of gain. A boom lengh of 4 wave lengh at CB is needed this means to get that kind of gain you would have to have 2 70 long boom beams stacked 24-36 foot apart very nice ant if you can do it At 144mhz i ran 4 17 elm beams stacked about 20 dbd of gain and recovered my ( 900 watt ) signal off the moon. The largest ham ant in the world is in texas over 500 elements and 30 db of gain ( 1000X ) and would just fit on a baseball field this antenna at cb would be almost 1200 foot long and 600 foot tall ( it has 36 stacked beams )What can you get for gain ? The NBS has a paper they did on gain and it will suprise you what they came up with as others have said most antennas are at best vastly overated. |
