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Message |
    
Danusee
New member
Username: Danusee
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 9:31 am: | 
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I just put a Maco V 5/8 on top of a 40' tower. I previously had a 1/2 wave home built(side mount) dipole in the vertical position. The receive went up 1-1/2 to 2 S units. I would say this antenna has great receive. The trasmit, from feedback that I have gotten, stayed the same or went down slightly. Very disappointing! Swr is perfect on channel 11 and goes to 1.1 on channel 1 and 1.2 on 40. I hate to say it but it has the transmit of a low mounted antron 99. Anyone have a idea about this? The only good side is that I can hear a pin drop 40 air miles and can talk to them because I can hear them but my signal is petered out. Now I wish that I went with a Imax and sill might. (Confession good for the soul). |
Patzerozero
Advanced Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 581
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
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hmmmm, could that side mount have induced a wee bit of directivity??????? |
Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 407
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
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I would check my coax and see if I put 4 watts in I get 4 watts out. |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 385
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
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The Maco 5/8 that i have performs
alittle better than my Imax 2000 on
transmit & recieve as i tested them at
the same height. Not sure why your having
a problem with your transmits if SWR's are
1:1...
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Tech291
Moderator
Username: Tech291
Post Number: 119
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 11:29 am: |
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Danusee
Was the dipole side-mounted on the same tower?
tech291
CEF#291
kc8zpj |
Racer_x
Intermediate Member
Username: Racer_x
Post Number: 185
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2005 - 2:51 pm: |
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If the receive went up then the transmit should have too unless you have some kind of match issue. How far away is the station where your transmit went down? |
Danusee
New member
Username: Danusee
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 8:51 am: |
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Yes the side mount was on the same tower. I do think it directed to the east, which is the side that I had it on, just a little more than what the Maco does being omni. I had very little coverage to the west before. Now the west receive is great.
Anyone done much adjusting with the tuning ring. I got belted off to the top of the tower and could just reach it so I moved the clamp about 1 1/2 inches futher to the left from where the two rings connect. I had it before 6 1/4 inches from where the rings connect together. The swr went down to .1 on 40 and perfect still on 11 and just moves the needle on channel 1.
The stations reporting that I went down are 20 air miles away (to the east). Since I moved the ring adjustment I am hearing traffice, even mobile units, 25-50 miles away. Wouldn't believe it if unless I seen it for myself yesterday. Thanks |
Tech291
Moderator
Username: Tech291
Post Number: 122
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 9:04 am: |
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Danusee
sounds like you have it tuned properly now.the reason i asked about the dipole was it is possable it was acting as a gamma and loading the tower as the radiator.I've had my maco v5/8 up about 2 years now and there is no other vertical i would go to the trouble of swapping it out for.
tech291
CEF#291
kc8zpj
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Danusee
New member
Username: Danusee
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 10:59 am: |
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Tech291, That just might have been the case. Well, you got to be able to hear them to talk to them. This morning I was listening to base stations 53 air miles away and their beams were not aimed in my direction. This thing may be doing better than I realize. I was getting 1 S unit on them.
I was thinking of moving that ring clip a little more to the left, maybe 1/2 inch. Going to the right gets worse. Has anyone moved their clips both directions? Was wondering what that I could expect. I know .1 is nothing. But I am one of those who lay awake at night wonder what if?
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Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 323
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2005 - 5:43 pm: |
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Danusee,
I would not move the ring clamp any more, you have it tuned very good and if you go to far your swrs wil start going up at one end of the channels.
I have a maco v and mounted a 7ft can hear and talk to stations 50 miles away. when its goes up on tower this spring i`m sure it will be even better. I think you made a wise choice.
Just like tech 291 said, I would not trade the maco v for any other vertical.
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Danusee
New member
Username: Danusee
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 9:57 pm: |
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I had a fellow cb'er take a look at my station. He made the comment that he didn't think there was signal out there that this maco v 5/8 didn't receive. The 1 to 2 S unit increase is accurate on receive. That little increase makes for a huge increase in the number of stations that I can talk to where as I couldn't hear them before.
If I ever get to do it again I will opt to go with the Imax 2000. Hearing others 40 miles north on the same channel that is run by cb'ers 20 miles west is kind of a pain.
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Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 409
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 9:12 am: |
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Danusee, after reading this thread over, I'm not real sure I understand what exactally you are saying and then considerning the title to your post.
There is probably no doubt that you are now able to hear better to the West, as your previous antenna was installed to the east side of the tower which may have interferred with the pattern to the West.
If you cannot transmit to a station that you can hear may not be a bad problem to have. All you need to do is increase your output a little and then maybe you can make contact. How do we ever really know how much power stations 40 miles away are running anyway? For sure if we can't even talk to them what do we know about their signals or where they really are for that matter? Have you considered that possibility?
Now that you have confessed to us, what exactally is the problem you think you have? How can you compare an antenna that you have up today to an antenna you had installed a while back? With conditions changing all the time, how do you do that?
Are you really trying to tell us that the Imax will cut down your receive so much that you will be able to cut out them old boys 40 miles north so you can hear them good buddies 20 miles to the west better? I don't know what it is, but I think you're missing something important about radio work.
Your last post was the topper. It is so full of horse hockey I can't believe it. |
Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 328
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:15 am: |
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If you had a chance to do it all over again you would put a Imax 2000 up and not hear the the stations to the west cause that is a pain, I think you would have the same problem with an Imax 2000 too. It`s a 5/8 wave also so it will be about the same as the maco v.
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Mikefromms
Advanced Member
Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 520
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 3:02 pm: |
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I'd put that Imax up as high as possible with the gd/kit (because I haven't tried it high without it) and put really good coax on it and hear everything.
mikefromms |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 401
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 5:57 pm: |
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I don't think he wants to hear everything.
His ears are already to sensitive.
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Danusee
New member
Username: Danusee
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:26 pm: |
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What I am saying is; based of info given by others that the Maco picks up the receive 1 to 2 S units over the Imax, if I ever put up another antenna I will give the Imax a try because I don't like hearing people carrying on a conversation with 1 to 2 S units while I am trying to talk to someone with 5 to 7 S units in the other direction. Will it cut out the unwanted traffic? I don't know but maybe one day I will find out. (So that is what the rf gain is for).
My original problem is that it seems to me if a antenna is rated to have db gain over the type that was taken down and the new one is higher up I would have expected the transmit to go up slightly or at least stayed the same. Going by what others have told me that I was not being received as well since the antenna swap was made. It is strange that I can make a antenna out of pvc and 2 old moon raker elements that out transmits the store bought one.
In looking at the antenna, where the tuning ring connects to the vertical element it is apox 18' and a few inches to the top. What I read is that a 18' antenna is a 1/2 wave. The part below the tuning ring is at the same potential as the mast that it is connected to.
So concluding my "horse hockey" now that I have had a few days to think it over, why would you call it V 5/8? Just another reason that I will opt to go with the Imax next time.
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Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 330
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:49 pm: |
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I think it wont matter, the imax or the maco. you will still hear the other cbers at 1-2 s units while trying to talk to someone with 5 s units. the two antennas imax and maco have about the same receive and transmit. but if you want to some day try the imax, who knows maybe it will be different in your location and trying is how you learn. |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 411
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 9:34 pm: |
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MAN, i love super sensitive recieving
antennas!/ The more people i hear, the
happier i am./ It's music to me ears./
Not going to get into the Maco V 5/8
not being a 5/8 s thing as that is explained
elsewhere in the forum./ Plus, i rather
be known as the station with ears, then
hearing stations say, Man, he has no ears! LOL
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 309
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 10:15 pm: |
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danusee, get yourself a beam antenna and ahve the best of ALL worlds.
i have to agree with marconi; im not sure exactly what your "woes" are. sounds to me like the antenna is working properly. (although i think it should be more like 20 feet from the ring to the tip.) i think the problem youre having is trusting your CB buddies. trust your test equipment, not others opinions.
im just going to flat out say it. the 5/8 wave IS outperforming your dipole in every way. i just dont think that you are basing the changes on the right criteria.
omnidirectional means just that. "all directions"
matt |
Danusee
New member
Username: Danusee
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 5:11 am: |
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Kid vicious, what I have trouble with is when a company advertises a V58 antenna as a 5/8 Wave commercial ground plane and the insulated vertical section measures to 1/2 wave.
The instructions says for 27 mhz the overall length is 240". These measurements are for the overall length of the antenna. This means the top is where the plastic cap goes and the bottom is below the hole for the mounting bracket C13P. (Which is the grounded section where the mast attaches). On the diagram there is a arrow with the word bottom pointing to the lowest point on the antenna. The way I use a tape measure, the insulated section it is coming up about 5' short of a true 5/8 wave antenna.
With no coil loss on the homebuilt antenna and possibly the tower was acting as a reflector that may just be enought gain to have shown a decrease in transmit to the east after the antenna swap.
I apologize if my previous post sounds stupid but having your cb buddies tell you that your signal is down, that while you are listening to another convestaion 40 miles away in the background, combine with the pain of putting it together and setting the swr. Also standing back and looking at it, the side radials look long enough but compared to the neighbors Imax it looks short bottom to top. Well it hasn't been fun but was intresting enouth.
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Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 411
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 10:43 am: |
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Hey Kid, I wouldn't go as far as to say that Dan's 1/2 wave is far inferior to the 5/8 wave. I believe he noticed some differences no doubt, differences that we cannot judge from our perspective and remain fair to the argument. Personally I like many of the qualities found in the ¼ and ½ wave antennas as compared to the longer ones.
I think his real issue, in a round about way, is the old argument that the V-5/8 is not a 5/8-wave antenna and that it acts more like a ½ wave like he stated earlier. I’m sure he realizes that different antennas in different locations respond in different ways. As I have said before, I find more similarities among all of these antennas, than I find differences.
Maco states in their documentation for this antenna that there is nothing sacred about the chart lengths provided, these are just a starting point. This is probably due to the affects on the tune with different locations for the antenna. The physical lengths of these antennas do not have to be the exact mathematical equivalent of a 5/8 wavelength for the band of operation in order to act like a 5/8 wave antenna. Most of the antennas that are marketed as 5/8 wavelength show to be different lengths, from just a bit longer too much longer than a resonant ½ wavelength. It depends a lot on matching and antenna design and to a lesser degree the material diameter and taper used.
Frankly, even though I might take exception to some of what Danusee has told us, I prefer his detail and use of words to describe what he has to say over post that are too brief, and lacking the reasonable use of words.
Danusee, if the little interference you are getting bothers you and your RF Gain will not solve the problem there is a very cheap way to get around all that. Just find a frequency where you don’t hear anyone talking.
BTW, at what point on the bottom did you measure your overall length from and did you use the 240” Maco suggests?
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Marconi
Intermediate Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 412
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 11:32 am: |
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After leaving my last post I saw your response to my questions and you are correct in reading the docs. No need to answer that part.
In reponse to your remarks to the Kid about the length of the Imax compared to your Maco. Remember that the element in the Imax is probably about a 1/16th of an inch in diameter and considering the taper in the Maco's diameter, it probably averages a bit larger than a half inch. This big difference in size will make the Maco somewhat shorter at resonance.
Something else to consider from my own experience at having both the Imax and several other, all metal, type antennas up at the same time. This also is true of the A99 which I currently use high in a tree. These glass types always seem to me to be a bit noiser than my other all metal antennas when at a similar height. If you had two side by side using a good switch box, you might also notice this difference in working noise level. This is where an S1-S3 signal difference can notably be unreadable and particularly when it is generally quite as you no doubt are experiencing at times. If this is true with other operators, then it is something to consider in the antenna selection process. Understand however that it is hard to realize this difference without both antennas being up, rapidly switchable, and working at the same point in time.
Something else to consider. |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 412
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 12:02 pm: |
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The V 5/8 is shorter than the Imax 2000./
But, performance wise if setup correctly,
the V 5/8 is slightly better than Imax./
I have a beam now, but, when i had my
V-5/8 mounted on my tower, i had it 9
ft above tower, set correctly it worked great./
I had no other metal objects or antennas within
36 ft of it, besides my tower./
I have also placed my Imax 2000 at exactly
the same height on tower, with & without
the GPK./ HERE, the Imax 2000 had more static
& recieved & transmitted alittle less than
the V-5/8./ But, since each area is different./
Results will vary./ You say your neighbor
has an Imax 2000./ Location of antenna is
also important, i have moved mine 10-20 ft
and the signal can go up or down./ A fair
test of antennas is if there the same height
and in the same exact spot with each other.
JIM/PA/CEF 375
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Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 789
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 8:29 pm: |
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Road warrior your right about moving just a few feet sometimes makes a lot of difference. I've got about 25 acres around my house, it's fairly level and all about the same elevation at the highest point on this mountain, but from driving around in my truck and talking to base stations the signal will vary quite a lot. I know the best places when I want to try out a mobile radio or antenna. You wouldn't think there would be that much difference, but there is.
About those maco v 5/8 groundplanes, I know a guy that's been having a lot of problems with his new one, he's trying to mount it near some trees and can't get the swr down. Haven't talked to him in a few days, the last I heard he was trimming limbs and about ready to go back to his antron 99. |
Airplane1
Intermediate Member
Username: Airplane1
Post Number: 339
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 7:56 am: |
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That is funny that he cant get it tuned, my maco is only 7 ft to feedpoint and I have it on the wash post. my house is about 15 ft away and the garage is about 20 ft away, the antenna barely stick up above the roof and my neibor has ham antennas about 20-25 ft away and my antenna seem not affected by any of those things.
How close are the trees? is the antenna close to the ground right while tuneing it and going to be put up higher after tuneing? Is it grounded properly?
I actuly found it easy to tune while some say they take a little more time to get right.
Make sure the length is where the instructions say to start and also the clamp on the ring.
Only use the ring when you get the swrs best with the length of antenna first, I had to adjust mine almost a foot befor it was correct and then I got the swrs good on each end of the channels with the ring, I barely moved the clamp on the ring to get it right.
I got alot of help from Tech 291 Dennis, contact him for help, he knows the maco v very well.
Hope this helps,
AP |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 792
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 10:55 am: |
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Yeah your right, I think it's a grounding problem. I told him that the last time I talked to him. They are trying to put it in or out the top of a tree. He had an old 99 in that tree and it worked ok althought he had a little problem with his neighbors, TVI, he lives in town. He was trying to upgrade and help the tvi problem, and some people told him metal was better. I think with his setup, he would have been better off with the I-Max 2000, but that's just my opinion. Anyway, that was his buddy I talked to last, he had been helping him that day, and he was happy because he had a truck load of good red oak wood they had cut from the tree. It sounded like they were gonna have a totum pole or light pole left when they got through.  |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 414
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 25, 2005 - 11:59 am: |
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My friend one time had trouble with
SWRS from being to close to a pine tree.
Once he got it far enough away SWRS dropped
to normal, the antenna was a A-99./
I started having alittle trouble with TVI
about 2 months ago, i bought the LM-TVX2
low-pass filter from coppers which took
care of the problem./ I just bought a book
about TVI interference which i'm in the
process of reading & learning./Its an excellent
book called The ARRL RFI BOOK.
JIM/PA/CEF 375 |
