| Author |
Message |
    
Karatebutcher
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 6:58 pm: | 
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Hey guys I have taken my 102 inch whip out of mouth balls,with the 5 inch spring heavy duty, and I have a question, the lower part of the antenna say two feet is much thicker than the upper part, say about a half inch thick 2 feet in legnth. what is that purpose, it is wraped in white plastic.
Thanks a lot karatebutcher |
Viking
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 2:24 pm: |
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The antenna will work the full 102" if it were the diameter of a coat hanger. It needs to be thicker to be able to support itself vertically. Same theory as a flag pole. Also, I'd imagine the size will help in power handeling. The white plastic? Someone just probably thought it would look cute that way. |
Karatebutcher
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 7:53 pm: |
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Thank you Viking for your reply, sounds like you and DX431 were right, it"s hard typing with a cat in your lap and her and the key board are at the same height, oh she wants to turn, |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Friday, October 31, 2003 - 8:45 pm: |
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Hint Karatebutcher, I would recommend taking it out of it's package prior to transmitting.
Actually, I do not know the reason for the tape but that 102" should do you just fine. I just bought me a new one w/spring and it has lower SWR's that that big coil I run. I'm gonna play with them a bit when I have time.
Alsworld |
Karatebutcher
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 9:28 am: |
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Thanks guys, Alsworld it is a coated plastic, it is thicker than the rest of the antenna, DX431 said it might be a coil to prevent the antenna from swaying back and forth, it does stay in place while driving, except to bend a small amount at 105 mph |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 10:15 am: |
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That is funny! 105 mph. I might have to get me one of these coated 102" whips for the freeway.
mikefromms |
Johnbrowning
Junior Member
Username: Johnbrowning
Post Number: 36
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 6:00 pm: |
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Get rid of the spring! First you do not need it with a 102" SS whip. Second unless you trimed the 102" to make up for the length of the spring your now too long and your SWR is going to be off. Third those springs have two pieces of cheap wire inside with questionable insulation. Moisture will get in them and casue SWR to increase or the wires break from constant bending and you then have all of the power from the radio feeding back into the radio! Springs are for fiberglass antena's that have no give.
The only done side to a 102" whip is that as they bend your polarity is changeing. Your signal strength that other stations pickup will not be as strong as you deviate from either Verticle or Horizontal polarity. I think their is a there is something like a 3db loss if the stations have oposite polarity. So the more the antena bends from verticle the less effective your signal is going to be to anyone that is running verticle polrization wich is 99% of all mobile and about 75% of base stations(some have both). Now the upside is that because you are kind of inbetween verticle and horizontal when driveing with a 102 whip you tend to here stations that more rigid antena's would miss. This only counts though for direct comunication. DX the signal is all mixed up from the many bounces it has made off the atmospere.
Now another thing that I like about the 102 SS whip is that it's signal pattern is spherical. Now a lot of companies would make this out to be a bad thing but for the type of talking I do I think it is a plus. I do not simply drive up and down the HWY talking and I hate haveing to point my vechile at someone for them to hear me. I have found that if I can hear someone with a 102" whip I can normaly talk to them. I have found that with top loaded antena's like a FireStick 5-7 foot long I can sometimes hear someone but they can not hear me. Often I would have to turn the vechile to talk to them. I like to be able to talk in all directions almost equaly well not strong front to back and weak on the sides.I will say this though the 7KW firstick is a top notch DX antena but for local trafic 102" rules!I also have found that the 102 SS whip is very broad banded on things with lots of metal like pickup trucks!
P.S. In a pinch you can use your 102" whip as a weapon or a fishing pole! |
Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 1897
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
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Johnbrowning, The 102 inch whip is not perfectly resonant on 11 meters without a 4 inch spring and a 2 inch wide ball mount. An electrically correct full size whip for 11 meters is 108 inches. This is what you want for a full size whip installed feedpoint above groundplane. Any lower than that and resonance will change dramatically which is why some 11 meter ops go without the spring. Correct installation of the 102 inch whip is to have all of the antenna above the groundplane....gets a little tricky sometimes.CEF491 |
Allagator
Advanced Member
Username: Allagator
Post Number: 745
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 5:58 pm: |
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the new ss 102 is longer than the older 102 dont know why but it is ! i would rather have my older 102 than the new ss 102 cause my truck likes trees and my antennas dont ! LOL
have a new ss102 that is bent in a close L shape ! some reason they bend and dont come back up when it is stuck to the bottom of a limb ?? (oh also bent up my cab )but with a spring it should of poped back up ! and took more of a beating ! LOL
but its just what ive seen on the trails !
i would rather loose 1/8 of power to loosing a 102ss whip cause it got bent !
LMAO !!
just my thought !
Allagator
CEF 115 |
Kid_vicious
Senior Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 2153
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, October 15, 2006 - 10:20 pm: |
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second on what hotwire said.
the 102" whip is designed to be used with the spring.
if you install a 102" whip with the spring, and you have an SWR of over 1.5, then you have a groundplane issue and cutting the antenna is not the thing to do.
you should never have to cut a 102" whip and any length coax will work fine provided you did the install correctly and supplied a sufficient groundplane for the antenna.
as for whats inside the spring, if its a good one, its a thick piece of copper braid that is bigger in diameter than the vertical radiator.
matt |
Bulldogunit777maine
New member
Username: Bulldogunit777maine
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 7:44 pm: |
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I'm a big time 102" stainless steel whip user. Got one on my 1998 Ford F-150 on a custom L bracket with a heavy duty stud mount. The whip is mounted into two SkyThumper 6 element radial kits. This works a whole lot better than a pot belly spring and provides me with 1 db gain both TX/RX. All mounted using a quick disconnect. Also have the same antenna set upon a 2000 Ford Taurus. The antenna is hooked to a Tram Triple Magnetic Mount. The 102 on this mount will hold this antenna at 100 mph. |
Captian_radio
Intermediate Member
Username: Captian_radio
Post Number: 391
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 10:04 pm: |
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How did you measure 1 db of gain?It takes 6db to show 1 s unit on most s meters so thats about 1/6 of an s unit gain ,how did you measure that?
Bob CEF451/VE1CZ
Robert L. Spicer The days of radio are just beginning!
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Bulldogunit777maine
New member
Username: Bulldogunit777maine
Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 11:24 pm: |
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Captian Radio the 1 db gain was present on my signal meter RX and the folks I were communicating with showed 1 db gain on their meters from my signal TX. Basically on the average a 1 db gain across the board. |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4687
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 6:04 am: |
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" 1 db gain was present on my signal meter "
That's my kind of meter ....
On 6 since 66
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4688
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 6:25 am: |
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" SkyThumper 6 element radial kits."
OK .....
Now you got my intrest up ......
How long are the radials on this kit?
Are they solid rod or some kind of wire wound inder shrink ( like a fire stick )
How did you measure this and did you measure it with and without his kit installed ?
SADLY there are many gimmicks being sold which only result is loss not gain .... the loss comes from your wallet.
On 6 since 66
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Bulldogunit777maine
New member
Username: Bulldogunit777maine
Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 8:03 pm: |
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The SkyThumper ST-500K Radial Kit has 6 solid stainless steel 6 inch elements. I am very satisfied with them. This combination works real well. |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4691
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:01 am: |
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I still don't see how 6 inch radials @ 27 mhz would have much effect. To work well either they must be 102 inch or a loaded element looking like 102 inch.
Hummm sounds like its time to build one and see what I can make it do .....
On 6 since 66
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Bulldogunit777maine
New member
Username: Bulldogunit777maine
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 6:20 pm: |
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Bruce, let me remind you I am using two SkyThumper ST-500K radial kits stacked. That give me 12 elements. I am a whatever works kind of a guy. Hand on person. I really love the 102 whip. The all natural "no fear whip". |
Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4693
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:44 pm: |
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The 102 inch wip is the best moble antenna ever built however for a " radial " to work well at CB it would have to be 95% of the 102 work well.
Right now Im " fine tuneing my 12avq 3 band antenna ( 14, 21 and 28 mhz ) and if I could make 12 18 and 24 inch radials work on it I would be one happy camper.
Im going to see if I can get any results on 10 meters just to see if i'm missing something or it has not been discovered in the many vertical antenna books that I have here.
Antennas ARE the one thing in which there are few short cuts you can take.... and after 50+ years of playing with them if someone HAS come up with a way I'm all ears ........
Bruce
On 6 since 66
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Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 2472
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 1:37 pm: |
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What does the Sky Thumper radial kit claim to do for receive/transmit?
KEEP IT REAL!
Kenny
cef491(27.115lsb)
2sf491(27.555usb)
Indiana
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Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 2473
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 1:43 pm: |
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I myself am a 102 inch SSwhip user too! With the 2 inch threaded Predator stud and 4 inch spring I get a perfect SWR. Mounted to my own custom made door hinge mount it is about a foot below my vans roof. Would love to have it on the roof but it would be to high for city driving. I already have a special route I have to take to avoid hitting low branches on my way out of town.
KEEP IT REAL!
Kenny
cef491(27.115lsb)
2sf491(27.555usb)
Indiana
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4704
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 12:04 pm: |
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Hotwire .....
Could it be his wip is 102 and too short? and this kit is acting as a capatance load and making that wip look like 107?
Hummmm ....
The plot thickens .....
On 6 since 66
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Captian_radio
Intermediate Member
Username: Captian_radio
Post Number: 393
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 8:14 pm: |
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Bruce sounds like a capacity hat to me also.I use to run a 102 whip with no spring and had to put on an extender to get it to 108" then it worked like a trooper.Why use radials on a mobile antenna the car or truck body is the radial GP.I have never seen a ham mobile antenna with a GP kit on it,sounds alot like the old rejection wire hoax for the moonraker that was making the rounds years ago AKA snake oil.
Bob VE1CZ/CEF451
Robert L. Spicer The days of radio are just beginning!
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4706
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 1:45 am: |
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"GP kit on it,sounds alot like the old rejection wire hoax for the moonraker that was making the rounds years ago AKA snake oil. "
SADLY that rejection kit messed up the reflector ....
On 6 since 66
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Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 2478
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 3:40 am: |
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It's elementary I say Bruce.....basic elementary indeed.
I put the radial kits in there with the echo talkback and noise toys, love them or leave them in the realm of cb radio.
KEEP IT REAL!
Kenny
cef491(27.115lsb)
2sf491(27.555usb)
Indiana
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Bruce
Senior Member
Username: Bruce
Post Number: 4707
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 7:18 am: |
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"It's elementary I say Bruce.....basic elementary indeed.
I put the radial kits in there with the echo talkback and noise toys, love them or leave them in the realm of cb radio."
Right up there with audio gain on a yagi .... LOL
On 6 since 66
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Chrisdey
Member
Username: Chrisdey
Post Number: 54
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 12:29 am: |
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There are 106" steel whips available online for those who prefer to forgo the spring. Works perfectly for me. Great match. |
Foxhunter
Member
Username: Foxhunter
Post Number: 66
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 2:31 pm: |
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Hi Gentleman, as usual I really enjoy reading your posts. I wanted to post a couple of comments and questions about this thread on 102" SS whips if I may.
A few weeks ago I bought one 102" SS whip at Radio Shack and also their heavy-duty mounting spring----because all data seems to indicate that 108" is the correct overall length for the antenna.
**One word of precaution with the Radio Shack version**----It would seem that the new ones have A HOLLOW STUD at the bottom, which looks like it will be very prone to crushing or becoming misshapen. I filled mine in with solder to make it have more integrity and be more solid. As a question, doing that shouldn't adversely affect the antenna electrically, correct?
Oh---it would figure, the very next day someone sold me an identical antenna for $2 after paying full price at Radio Shack. This leads me to one question......Has anyone ever ran TWO 102" whips in a co-phased set-up? Ever thought of trying? Why or why not? I could get the required 9-FT of spacing, and it WOULD look cool. But do any of you guys think much could be gained?
Also, mentioned above: the "ground plane radial kit" mounting-stud for mobile use... I purchased one awhile back when I was first "learning" (still have a ways to go). The "reason" why many choose to purchase and install one is because their vehicle and/or their mounting location may be poor for adequate ground plane. I drive a very large late-model Freightliner which is a full-size OTR truck. It is very limited with choices of mounting locations because of height/clearance issues. Traditionally trucks are forced to use mirror-bracket mounting. Having an antenna with very little metal-mass below it in that mounting location, and also having a mostly fiberglass/composite vehicle body----spells big problems.
So I'd bought a spoked "ground plane radial mounting stud".....$25 plus tax. It has SIX radials, at 4-inches each. I mounted it below a Predator 10K Dual-Coil. I really like the "looks of it"....it looks cool. But it did nothing measureable that I could find. I'd suppose adding ANY additional amount of metal (like this type radial-stud) might not "hurt" exactly.
The "Amateur Quarter Wave Ground Plane Antenna Calculator" found at the link below is a useful tool for 1/4 wave radials. At 27-MHZ using FOUR radials----each one should be 8.66 feet long. So....considering this, what would my 4-inch radials do or Bulldog's? Not much I'd think.
www.csgnetwork.com/antennagpcalc.html
As perhaps a substitute for the barrel-spring coupled to a 102" whip? Wilson makes a few stainless-steel threaded shafts. I have two of them, one is a 5-inch shaft and the other a 10-inch. Although I haven't tried it yet I imagine the 102" whip with a 5-inch shaft then the mounting stud itself would equal 108-inches overall. |
Hotwire
Senior Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 2561
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 9:23 am: |
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The ground plane radials will not help with performance at all. May not reduce performance though other than adding more length to the antenna so if you like the way it looks and are happy the way it works then go for it.
I use a Radio Shack 102 inch steel whip myself and it has held up very well. I smack tree limbs daily. It has survived ice rain snow and even abuse one day when I drove under a very short railroad bridge. I tie it way over when needed and it will not bend. Strong antenna so don't worry.
The good thing about the 102 inch SS whip and the 96 inch fiberglass whip is that they are foolproof as long as they are installed correctly.
You have got to keep them above the vehicle as much as possible. Bumper mounted is a no go! Mine is mounted about just a foot below my vans roof so most of it is up there. Not pefect perfect but I got lucky with a 1.1 swr. I use the predator stud and a spring.
The whole full size whip radiates signal. Thats why they are so good besides just the size.
Antennas with coils such as the Predator only radiate the signal below the coil. Yeah some signal makes it past the coil into the stinger but most of it is in the shaft. Thats why it is extremely important to properly install the Predator.
I'm not knocking the Predator. I have 2 of them and they are the best after the full size whip in my opinion. The full size whip is my favorite.
Oh yeah 2 full size whips cophased will work like any other set of antennas. You get forward and backward direction and not much side to side.
Dead center on the truck is the best. With the entire antenna above the truck. Rare to see 102 inch whips on big trucks. I have seen them on the bumper and they did not work well at all. Best bet is on the mirror or somehow mounted to the side. At 14 feet on my van I have enough trouble but the trouble is worth the performance in receive and transmit.
KEEP IT REAL!
Kenny
cef491(27.115lsb)
2sf491(27.555usb)
Indiana
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Tech565
Moderator
Username: Tech565
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2008
| | Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 10:20 pm: |
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I have ran 102 ss whips on almost every vehicle I have ever owned. From the trunk on a pontiwreck grand am to the roof rack on a chevy full sized conversion van. I even had one installed on my light bar on a full size bronco with 4" of lift. The latter 2 worked real good but hitting a overpass at 75mph can make one look awful darn funny. On the trunk or roof I used a "egg" or "beehive" mount with a 1.1-1 SWR. Using the roof rack with a ground strap and half of a "mirror" mount, still a 1.1=1 SWR. Same goes for using the same set up on the light bar. I have never used a spring and never had a SWR that was over 1.2-1, and that was using a amp 
Tech565/Ham243
Net and Asst. Net controller
CVC#38
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Bulldogunit777maine
Junior Member
Username: Bulldogunit777maine
Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2008
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2011 - 5:47 pm: |
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Well it has been a while since being here. In that time I have gained knowlegdge and experience. Would like to mention that the Skythumper radial kits are not providing any benefit on the TX/RX aspect. With the addition of metal it will lengthen your antenna and effect the swr. My previous methods were not 100% perfect and sorry if you were mislead. All mobile radial kits are nothing but snake oil in their advertisement. I have tried all the popular ones on the market in seek of the extra. Now I have the experiences. Yes it cost few a few extra dollars but, lesson learned. The best set up in my opinion is a 102" with a spring or 6" type riser.
CEF #1039
Reno "Bulldog"
Unit 777 in Central Maine
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