| Author |
Message |
    
mikefromms
| | Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 12:51 pm: | 
|
Well, I took the dive and ordered a Signal Engineering Thunder 8xb. I called over the weekend and got a recording but one of the engineers called me back Sunday night.
The man told me it was very directional. He also told me the switch box that comes with it only allows you to switch the beam but they could sell me a switch box that could switch it from omni to beam for $30. I don't like that. I almost didn't order for that reason. The thing cost $234. He also told me not to run mini 8x coax. I won't argue with him about it. I ordered two 50 ft 213u jumpers from Coppers this morning. The man I talked to also said that it was common for users of this specialized antenna to talk 45 and 50 on a regular basis. Hope it is as good as he says. I'm taking a chance.
mikefromms |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 12:37 am: |
|
Standby to answer lot's of questions Mike. Now it's our turn to ask all the questions  !!!
Alsworld |
Bullet
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 3:04 am: |
|
Anthony is a pretty good fella im sure youll like it.
depending on the height you put it up at you should be able to talk that far or more.
i do that daily on a collinear array on a 60 foot tower. |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 9:36 am: |
|
Man I wouldn't have liked that switch box deal either, this is copied from their advertisement. It plainly states, "switchbox included" to make it omni or beam.
"The Thunder 8 XB is the answer for the operator who is limited to or requires omnidirectional performance that is switchable to "beam" performance at the flip of a switch! The Thunder 8 XB is capable of providing omnidirectional coverage with the added ability to concentrate its signal into a bi-directional beam pattern. Two coax lines run from the switch box (switch box included) to the Thunder 8 XB allowing it to have an omnidirectional or 2 directional beam pattern that is switchable instantly - no rotor required." |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 11:23 am: |
|
Scrapiron63, I sent them several e-mails about his matter. I mentioned how they had promised to send a fully operational switchbox (omni and beam selection) on their website. I also mentioned that I could be good advertisement for them. This antenna cost way too much, besides the fact they promised, to not have the switchbox included to be able to use it completely. The way it is you can't use omni.
Maybe they will reconsider and send me the right switchbox. As far as I know they used to send out the real deal switchbox. If I end up buying a fully operational switchbox it won't be from them. Copper has plenty of switchboxes and I'm one of the techs could recommend one.
I will have the antenna up around 25 to 30 feet at the base. It will be in the clear. I will give a full report once it's up. One thing I won't be able to report on, apparently, is it's omni performance. Omni performance is supposed be about as good as an A-99 according to one owner I talked to. Anyway, maybe the beam patterns will work so good I'll forget about omni! I hope this is the case.
Got to go now and take the Astroplane off the roof to make room for the Thunder 8. I'll just operate the AP about 15 ft off the ground in the yard until I have the Thunder ready to go up.
Stay tuned. I've dropped the dough and soon you will know.
Mikefrommms CEF #171 |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 3:18 pm: |
|
Well, Anthony called me a few minutes ago and it appears we had a misunderstanding. He said they are sending a switch to make it switch from omni to beam PLUS the other switch that just does the beam! Talk about service. Then, he said he just wants me to be happy with the antenna and that other customers had been very satisfied. He said I could call the engineers if I have any problems with assembly or other questions about it's performance. What more can you ask for? My hat's off to Signal Engineering for wonderful follow-up with the customer. |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 - 4:47 pm: |
|
Hey Mike, thats a good deal, maybe they read this forum. Anyway, seems they want to do the right thing. Good luck with your new antenna, I know from reading your posts you were not completly satisfied with the other one. scrapiron |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 8:24 am: |
|
Scrapiron63, I jumped the gun on Signal Engineering and intend on doing a separate post to apolgize for this. They are a fine company. They have some interesting products as well.
The AP never did altogether what I wanted. A lot of that could be my fault--location, small coax, etc.. Interesting enough, I pulled it off the roof yesterday to make room for the new antenna. I stuck the AP up in the front yard (just stuck the 15 ft pole bottom in the grass) and it heard and talked like it was 100 ft in the air! I'm puzzled over this because I think it was hearing and talking better closer to the ground. To top things off, when I went outside to brace it back up against the house, it had fallen over. But the thing was talking up a storm and hearing like crazy! It's a rub you head kind of mystery. I really wonder how long it had been horizonal-flat on the ground? All I know is that dude was working. It had just rained so maybe the wet ground had something to do with the groundwaves being so good. But I always thought your local performance was cut down by placing an antenna lower to the earth. Oh well, this is the Astroplane and it's supposed to work good close to the ground. It does.
Well, the UPS truck should arrive this morning with my antenna. I look forward to that.
Mikefromms |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2003 - 2:00 pm: |
|
Glad you got it worked out Mike, and know your looking for that UPS truck.
Your "on the ground" antenna story reminds me of one that happened to me about 25 years ago. One morning I was on my base talking to a friend about 25-30 miles away, we were on sideband, and had a big signal, all at once while he was talking, his signal dropped to nothing, when he unkeyed, I told him his signal had dropped, but I could still hear him ok, he came back and said, man I've got something wrong, I can just barely hear you. About that time my wife stuck her head in my radio room and said,"I heard some noise outside". I went and looked out in the back yard, and there was my 70 foot tower with 2 beams laying on the ground. We had a little storm the night before, and a big limb had fell, broke my guys on one side, then when the wind got up that morning, it happened to be from the direction of the broke guys, and down she went. I had a 3 element vertical, and a 4 element flat beam on the tower, it fell in an open spot, didn't hit anything but the ground, the beams hit broadside, the flat was destroyed, but the vertical was not hurt much. I couldn't believe we could talk that far with those beams on the ground, and all bent and touching each other. I even went back in, and told the friend what had happened so he wouldn't think he had problems. We were running a little extra, not a whole lot, I was using a Yaesu 101zd and he had some HF rig, a Drake I believe.
scrapiron |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2003 - 10:13 pm: |
|
Scrapiron63, That's an interesting story. Strange things happen with radio and antennas sometimes. I'm surprised you could still transmit that far seeing that your beams crashed to the ground.
That reminds me of the time my ex-wife got on my Cobra 2000 to talk to her Grandfather across the road one morning with the coax disconnected. Her Grandfather kept commenting, "You're not as loud as you usually are." Soon she discovered the problem! I freaked when I found out she was talking on my Cobra 2000 without coax! The Holy Grail cb radio.
Got that Thunder 8xb and it took me forever and a day to put it together. I wanted to be sure I got it right. Got my coax from Coppers today. The antenna is sitting up on the ground vertically with ties holds it up against a tree. I've talked on it and even on the ground can tell it will be very directional. Anyone thinking about getting one should be aware that this antenna is requires great care getting it together correctly and it is heavy. It's really a two person job. Next project for me will be getting it up in the air. More later.
BTW, the full operational switchbox cost me an extra $30. Oh well. I've got one more day off this week; so, it's get that antenna up tomorrow--I hope.
mikefromms |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2003 - 9:33 pm: |
|
Ask your questions--I've got the Thunder up. 808 in West Virginia said I was the loudest station out there cutting through the mix. The ability to reject noise from the sides comes in really handy. It's the difference in hearing or not hearing some stations.
mikefromms |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 1:36 am: |
|
Mike,
I have tried three time today/tonight to post questions about your new antenna, but each time I got intterupted or cutoff.
"Dad, I need to call my friends....Dad, can I drive your truck?....Dad, the entire barbecue pit is engulfed in flames.....
I guess I'm eating my steaks well done tonight.
Heck I'll just ask tomorrow.
Alsworld |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 7:14 am: |
|
Alsworld, ask away. I'll be glad to answer completely honestly any questions you or anyone else may have. Let the questions roll. Oh btw, it means nothing for a dx station to say you're cutting through the mix or you're the loudest. That can be a one time deal. It can be conditions. We've all heard it on about every antenna we've owned. When those comments come over and over that's when it counts. So, in time I'll see if these comments come over and over. It's working good but with a little swr I'll have to work out with jumpers or live with it. I will say this antenna taught me some valuable lessons.
Ask away. It's off to work I go.
Later,
mikefromms |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 8:10 am: |
|
hehehe Alsworld,
Things will get better.
Taz |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 9:37 am: |
|
It does look like that would be a pretty good job to assemble, but have you ever opened up a moonraker 6 or laser 400, lol, looks like a million parts and pieces. At eleven pounds its about the same weight as a PDL or maco 3 element. It needs a good sturdy mast, don't believe you'd want it on a fully extended pushup, if so it would have to be guyed right under the antenna, and that would get into the insulators thing. It's surely not a tree tower candidate. I'd say it makes the old Imax 2000 look like a cheap/easy solution, huh. However, experimenting with different antennas is one of the joys of radio. scrapiron |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 7:16 pm: |
|
You hit the nail right on the head Scrapiron63. A fellow really needs a tower for this antenna. I do plan on going on up with the antenna on a 36 ft pushup pole (already erected partially) but I will be sure it is guyed completely. It's doing a good job where it's at now but it's really not fair to say anything negative about it unless it up high enough to give it a fair shake. The reports I get locally is that I have forward swing and I'm loud. I use a Lincoln. The skip reports were good but as I said earlier that could be said about any antenna at any given time. The bottom line is it is transmitting. I need a little more time on it to give a fuller report and also get it up higher in the air. It is nice to be able to switch off to another element and hear skip stations or distance mobiles while others complain about the noise levels being too high or too many stations are in there for them to hear the distant station. The thing really looks cool--not as weird as I first thought it would look. But I will say it turned out to be way bigger than I pictured in my mind. It makes the Astroplane look small. I'd almost rather climb a tree with an AP and mount it than fool with the Thunder 8 and a pushup pole. I had to run a coathanger through the hole in the bottom of the pole and tie a 22lb weight to it so I could walk the Thunder 8 up without losing it. But I was so glad to see that thing erected. I was surprised how the copper wires straightened out after the antenna was up. I guess the fiberglass elements evened out the tension.
I almost got a V-quad. I bet they're a lot bigger than I would picture them too. Oh well, I'm glad I got this big dude up and I'm going to enjoy it for sure.
mikefromms |
67gto
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2003 - 9:28 am: |
|
Mike,
Do you have a digital camera to take a picture of the antenna? The picture on the site does make it look weird.
Thanks,
G T O |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 7:09 am: |
|
It is a lot bigger in reality. I think the pictures make the giant look like a midget-more like a bug zapper. I don't think any picture will truly give any idea of it's size. Just think twice as big. Man, I'll say one thing when a station is to the side of the antenna it really has good rejection. I mean I can reject loud station totally at times who were putting a 5 s-unit on me when pointed at them and then flip off the other direction. With a rotor and little movement here and there--incredible.
mikefromms |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 10:19 pm: |
|
The more I use this antenna the more I appreciate it. I talked to two stations over in Cherokee, Alabama tonight. That's about 45 miles the way the crow flies Bot stations were running A-99 and one of them was in a "hole" running barefoot. I barely had a reading on him but his audio was good. He said he had a good copy on me and said I put 4 s-units on his meter. Last night I talked to 3 stations in Califoria. Would you believe that excited me! It's only like 2000 or so miles away!
The rejection on this antenna is really fine. I can't say enough about it. I guess it was worth the trouble of putting together. I still think it is a little expensive but it is a quality antenna. It looks like it would last a long time. The balums might wear out one day and the wire. But even with just the frame it wouldn't be any cost much to rebuild it. I guess a person could use bigger wire if he wanted. Mine is not very broadbanded. Maybe I'll get a good tuner for that.
Later,
mikefromms |
Tech833
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:22 am: |
|
Now just imagine what the rejection would be like with a 4 element (or even a 2 element) quad. Once you start adding reflector and director elements, rejection and directivity go up by magnitudes. |
Tech833
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 - 11:28 am: |
|
Mike,
You should NOT compare the Thunder 8 to your Top One (Astro Plane copy).
When you first came on the forum, you said that you needed an antenna that was broad banded, omni directional, that had to perform well despite the limitation of NOT being able to have anything stick up more than 25 feet above ground, and you had a very limited budget. We all suggested the Top One.
You did purchase a Top One, then proceeded to feed it with defective coax cable and complain about the performance.
Now, you are bashing the AP and talking about this 36 foot push up pole you have and how you want a tower. If you had provided that information earlier, we would have suggested a different antenna.
That's like asking us to recommend the best car for under $5000, and then later telling everyone you bought the Cadillac and how much better the Cadillac is than the Hyundai. That is not a fair comparison. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 11:10 am: |
|
I was merely wading into cb again. My apologies for bashing the AP. I had some good luck with it. I guess I was really comparing it to the big stations I had in the past and hence the disappointment. The Thunder 8 is more in line with the stations I had back then, as is the Galaxy 2517. The information you all gave me was right on and would have suited my needs if that is what I really wanted. I really didn't know I would get this involved in radio again but I did. That was the difference. I was hesitating about putting up a big antenna and tall pole because there wasn't anything like it in my neighborhood. I found out later that my wife didn't care so I moved on up in the air some. Fact is, I shouldn't compare thunder 8 when used as a beam to any groundplane on the market. They are horses of a different color. The groundplane on the thunder 8 works good as I have talked 35 miles on it, but I'm sure there are a few better groundplanes than it is. In fact, the AP is a better groundplane than the thunder 8 when used as a groundplane.
Again, for the benefit of new readers, the information you get here is based on your current needs and limitations and the information will be useful, accurate and right on the money according to the information you provide.
Thanks for all the information I have been given on this site. I'm happy to have found this site and glad to be in over my head deep into the radio hobby again.
I am very content at this time with my station.
mikefromms |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 9:24 pm: |
|
It's another day and I'm still content with my station as it is.
mikefromms |
Doc_Cb
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 8:57 am: |
|
Hello, I just wanted to tell you what type of help i got from Signal Engineering i pic up a Thunder 8 from a guy that had it but did not like how it worked and it was about 5 months old so i paid him and when i got the antenna hear and started to get it goiny i found that the wires had bin cut so i look at the instructions and thay said that you must cut 1/4" at the end of wires so i but back 1/4" still swr high so i sent a email to SE and thay said that thay cant give me the lengh of the wire but i could buy the wire from them for $95.00, Now i am up in canada so the antenna is very $$$ and thay cant tell me how long the wire must be, All other antennas you cant get all the info you want but not them i dont think that it right so i will have to stay with a super scaner on the tower did want to try out the thunder up there its 100 foot tower but now i dont think that i will and i am not to happy with Signal enginering will look for another type of antenna that has some good suport, Just wanted to see what you all think of this..
later Doc_cb |
Ca346
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 11:48 am: |
|
Doc:
I don't see how you can expect SE to give you free what costs them money in design, engineering, etc. You should be talking to the guy you bought the used antenna from if you want to complain about someone or the product.
"That" issue aside, it should still work well even with 'patched' wire as the driven wire. Keep adjusting the COAX where it attaches to the brass wire in accordance with the instructions until you start seeing the SWR go down. It will be worth the effort. It is a great antenna. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 11:55 am: |
|
I didn't like having to buy an antenna switch so I could use the GP on it with the beams. Anyway, the thing works great once you get the swr within working range. Mine is higher than a a lot of people would be comfortable with but it blows smoke. Go to a hardward store and buy you some more copper wire. In fact, get a larger diameter that should increase bandwidth and restring it. I'd also go back over every measurement on the antenna including the frame and make sure it is in keeping with the specs. See that the baluums are correctly connected.
Don't throw the baby out with the dirty bath water! Fix that thing up and put it up or fix it up and sell it. It will work great when put together properly.
mikefromms |
Doc_Cb
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 6:25 pm: |
|
Hello Ca346, I did not want them to give me the wire just tell me how long i will buy the wire and put it on but thay say that thay cant give out that info then why is it you can go to most of the other antenna comp and down load the assembly instructions for all most any antenna and thay give you the size of the wire and how long it should be, Thats what gets me and for the price that you pay for the antenna you would think that thay would help out but that must just be me heck i have had quads before and got all the info i needed to fix any of them up like maco will give you all the help you need now that to me is a out fit that knows how to keep there users happy and comeing back all the time like you have seen hear that alot say that SE needs to work on there instructions work alot more. Well i think that i am geting more mad thinking about it so time to go thats for the input
later Doc
|
Ca346
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 10:30 pm: |
|
Doc:
Count to ten and hold onto that antenna. I think you'll be sorry if you sell it. I think "Mike from Miss." had a great idea to try before you unload it. I have the Lightning 4+ which is only the 4 element quad, but it is really something. Hope to be talking with you on our QUAD's! |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 11:54 am: |
|
Actually, the original wires had an highlighted area or insulated area which was your safety zone for screwing down the wires on each end or side. Go look at the wire and make sure you are screwing down the fasteners over the insulated part of the wires. It could be that one of the bare wires is touching the metal fasteners. Again, take some time with the instructions and double check each measurement. I still have my instructions if you need a copy.
mikefromms |
|
