| Author |
Message |
    
Joseph Shmoe
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 3:07 pm: | 
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Avanti used to make this antenna as some of you may remember. They said that it was a 5/8 wave . Just looking at this thing I have to ask how they get 5/8 wave when it's only 12 feet long ? What kind of desighn is this based on??? |
Highlander
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 9:41 pm: |
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J-pole? |
Weatherman
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 11:52 am: |
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from what I have read on this antenna, it is considered a folded 5/8ths wave design. |
Straycat
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 9:44 pm: |
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A CB shop in Ft Walton beach (Mac's ??) used to sell these or acopy of them back in the early 90's. He got out real well. O widhed I would have bought one then. Any idea where you can get one now ? I. like most, think the A-99 gets out OK but boy what a bleeder and RFI/TVI generator |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 10:13 pm: |
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it is an extremely good antenna! better than the imax |
409
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 4:40 am: |
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The Astro Plane was a co-inductive design and really did a good job. I once had the specs on it and the Astro Beam . Probably still in some of my old papers. I knew a few stations who ran them and they did a nice job for a ground plane antenna. |
Marconi
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 7:37 am: |
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I have parts of several old AP's but no doc's. I would appreciate anyone having docs to send me a copy. Let me know and I will give you my mailing address.
From what it looks like to me this antenna is nothing more than a simple center fed dipole similar to the Starduster in specific design except that it uses a capacitance hat on a shortened radiator. IMHO, this simply provides the antenna with a much improved horizontal response and better current distribution by top loading some.
The ground side of this antenna looks to be modified a bit on the SD'r down radial design which provides a smaller foot print and maintains a good input impedance match at the center feed point.
As with the SD'r this all makes for a very efficent antenna. There is no matching and no coil in this one and it may well fit the scheme for a electrical equivalent of a 5/8's wave radiator. However, I am just not real sure about that. They do seem to respond like a much bigger antenna and they were very popular back in the Big Days of CB.
Marconi |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 9:09 pm: |
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Marconi, the CB antenna guru as you are, what do you think of the old Avanti Sigma 5/8 wave that was made back in the mid 1970s? |
Marconi
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 5:12 am: |
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If tuned properly they can take a big load and make one heck of a signal. I finally got mine up about 30' to the base and it does almost as well as my 4 element Wilson on the flat side.
The thing worked just about as good at 10' however. It seems to be very clean also. Mine is the older version, as is yours, with only three radials in the base cone. As I understand it, mine also has much better and a little heavier aluminum than the modern knock offs. I have had some trouble with the feed point (SO-239) in mine, so I went to a pigtail direct attachment to the gamma match and she tunes down much easier and will take some big watts in a breeze.
However, at about 30', they are just a bit long, and it gets a bit scary up there when the wind gets rough.
Marconi |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 12:29 pm: |
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Marconi.
I now have in my posession an Avanti Sigma 5/8 wave GP, the one with the ring at the base. I think its a lot like the old Hy gain penetrator 500. Ive heard its one awesome antenna! |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 12:32 pm: |
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BTW i have the older version of the Avanti Sigma 4 too. Very good antenna!!!! Well, you know that! You have one too! Its up on my roof on a tri-pod mounted to a 5' mast at a total of about 25' off the ground and works very sell as a standby to my moonraker 4. |
walter
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 7:25 pm: |
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I need the measure for built a ASTROPLANE
someone have this information?
ciao valter genoa, italy |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, June 28, 2002 - 5:06 pm: |
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i think it is the standard for imni antennas |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 8:34 pm: |
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How about the new version of the Astroplane, is it just as good as the Avanti?
Mikefromms |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 1:09 pm: |
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I have studied and studied this thing out. I'm now down to the Astro plane and Anttron 305 as my choices for a base station groundplane. I found too many complaints about the I-max in the wind and too many complaints about the Army Big Stick not having any ears and the new style Star Duster being junk, besides it's a 1/2 wave. A little more study and I will make my decision.
How about a vote between these two? What are you thoughts? Should be fun.
Thanks,
Mikefromms |
Tech808
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 3:54 pm: |
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Mikefromms,
I have had the Anttron 305 since it came out and love it.
I spoke with Ken, the New owner of ANTTRON last wednesday, and he is still working to make a deal on the fiberglass for the Anttron 305.
He is also re-designing the 8010 so we can look forward to that one later down the line.
As soon as he gets the deal closed on the fiberglass, the Anttron 305 will be back in production.
It is just taking him longer than he expected on gatting the fiberglass for it.
I will keep you updated on progress.
Lon
Tech808 |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 6:50 pm: |
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Thanks a lot. One vote, I take it, for the Anttron 305. Keep in mind I will not be more than 20 feet high at the base of the antenna.
Thanks,
MikefromMs |
Tech833
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 9:56 pm: |
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Either antenna will work well at that height. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:13 pm: |
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Question is, @ 30 feet at the tip which would outperform the other? BTW, I really enjoyed the article (I read since I started this discussion) about "How to Choose an Antenna." The Top one sure ranked high in every under 30' catagory. I believe it took no. 1 spot in all the under 30' catagory. Anyway, if the Anttron 305 is better at this height I'd be willing to use it.
Mikefromms |
Tech833
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 9:48 am: |
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How much more specific can I be?
Repeat after me: The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
The Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
For the LAST time, the Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet.
Forum Master Note :
Tech833, I'm not sure I completely understand. Are you saying the Top One will outperform the A99 at 30 feet? :-)
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Tech833
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:08 am: |
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I think so. I'll check. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 6:57 pm: |
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What was that again?
Mikefromms |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 9:02 pm: |
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So not even the mighty I-max 2000 can touch the Top one Astroplane at under 30 feet. My wife said she would buy me one for Father's Day. Why should I order from Copper? Is shipping pretty cheap? What if the antenna is a lemon?
mikefromms
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Brassmonkey
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:46 pm: |
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and if your top one astroplane's swr's should rise, shake the pole. |
Tech808
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 12:47 am: |
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Mikefromms,
Shipping is the same anywhere you get it from. UPS charges do not vary.
Copper will match or beat any other competitor's published price.
Copper has been in Business since 1975 while 100's of others have come and gone.
This is the Only Forum I have seen that actually gives you a Customer Service area for any problems that might arise.
And it would be hard if not impossible to find anyone with more experience or knowledge on Antennas than Tech833 or Tech307.
Just my thought's as to why you should Order from Copper.
Also because we have the best Radio Forum on the Internet. 
Lon
Tech808  |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 1:13 am: |
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Thanks Lon,
It's been years since I've ordered any radio/antenna equipment. I have ordered several times from Coppers years ago.
I do enjoy this site. I'm itching to do some dxing.
May order this weekend.
MikefromMs |
Tech833
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 9:17 am: |
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'The mighty Imax 2000' (as you put it) would be a close match for the Top One at 30 feet if you added the GPK and ran several ground wires underneath it (below ground).
The Top One would be less expensive and much less work. Now, if the tip of the antenna was going to be 60 feet, that would be different. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 12:34 pm: |
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Thanks for the added information. I'm not going to be able to get the tip much over say, 25', and that from the roof top. I'm looking for simple. I've even thrown around building my own antenna but can end up be a chore.
I understand it takes 12' of pole to insert up though the antenna as the mount. If I put this thing on the house top what is the mimimun distance from the bottom of the antenna to the roof without interfering with the performance of the antenna? Don't mean to sound like a dummy.
Mikefromms |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 1:26 pm: |
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Case in point, "The Top One would be (1) less expensive, (2) and much less work" That seals the deal for me. Why would I want to do all that ground work and worry about a 24' long antenna getting blown down from 60' every time the wind blows? Too much expense, too much work, too much worry for a such a little bit of improvement when compared to the factors involved. If Copper's is opened right now, I'm calling in my order for the Top One Astro Plane.
Thanks for all the technical support and look forward to learning much more.
Mikefromms |
Tech833
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 7:16 pm: |
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The Top One only needs about 7 or 8 feet of mast up the middle of it. The bottom 'ring' of the antenna only needs to be a foot or two away from stuff. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:36 pm: |
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Okay, I can picture that. There's about 4' then above the point where the top of the support pole ends. So I could use a 10 0r 12 ft pole and get by okay on the housetop.
I'm using an attic dipole for a receiving antenna for my shortwave receiver. I'm surprised how well the dipole is covering most of the bands. Man, if it didn't look unsightly I'd put up an inverted-v for transmit on 10 meters but I'm glad to know there is an inexpensive, easily assembled and easily installed antenna like the Top one to save all that trouble. I look forward to getting that top on up on the house. I'll order on Monday by phone. I'll get everything else I need between now and the time it arrives.
Thanks for the support.
Mikefromms |
Tech833
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 11:24 am: |
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Try your Top One on shortwave. It works very well! When I had one, I hooked it up to my SW receiver and it worked better than the longwire on 40 meters one night. Also, the Top One's SWR is very low on scanner bands in the 47 Mhz. range and up through VHF and even some UHF.
I am NOT saying it has 'gain' on these bands, it was just interesting that when I swept it, there were points all over the spectrum where the return loss was better than 10 dB. |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 8:35 pm: |
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833 ... under 2/1 not bad! |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 10:16 pm: |
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If I understand this antenna right, it is tuned once it is put together. That is, it requires no adjustment. Cool antenna and versatile! How big of pipe (diameter) does the antenna require to insert into the top?
Mikefromms |
Tech833
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 12:51 am: |
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It will take up to 1 1/2 inch pipe. |
Shaun y.
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 3:27 pm: |
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Marconi,
I wish I could find anouther one myself. I use to run one back in the late 80's then I advanced to a moonraker 4, wich I had to sell. Now I am looking for a new M/R 4 or 6. they are getting hard to find. good luck with the astro plain. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 8:27 pm: |
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I'll give a full report once it's up and running. It's on the UPS truck now. I'm still looking at where I will install it. There's really not much to it. I see how it is able to handle a lot of wind. There's not much for the wind to grab hold of and the thing has to be fairly light. I'm in a great location, high terrain.
I will take your advise and run my shortwave off of it and see what happens.
Later,
Mikefromms |
CM 3885
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 2:04 pm: |
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The AP is a great antenna!! I have a modified version of the new one that is now sold.. I modded it with heavier aluminum and beefed up the mid secion were the top and bottom join in the middle of the antenna. Thats the weak point of the antenna! I also have a Astrobeam that is basically new and i had it up once.. Great beam but it is a tad narrow banded. |
Tech833
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 8:55 pm: |
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It's not the best antenna for all installations. It just fits the need nicely for an antenna which works well at low altitudes. |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 2:00 pm: |
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This antenna is just smart. It should be called the "smart one." Look at how it mounts on a pole. No wonder the thing holds up so well in the wind. It radiates from the top and is a 5/8 wave in a compact design. After studying carefully this site and other sites on the web, I choose the Astro-plane first with second choice being the Maco 5/8 wave ground plane for my lower altitude needs. I'll be lucky to get the top of my astro-plane to 25 feet. I look forward to hooking it to my shortwave receiver, also.
I plan on running the shortest length of coax possible to my antenna. Considering where I'm mounting the antenna, it might be as short as 18'.
mikefromms |
Twa77
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 6:15 pm: |
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how is the top one for tvi. i had an imax that bled all over my neighbors tv. i am really starting to consider the top one. i will be mounting right at about 30 feet maybe a little more. also what about grounding this antenna what do you recomend. also i see that the top one will stand in the wind. the wind blew my imax over |
Tech833
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 8:21 pm: |
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The antenna does not create TVI unless it has a loose (arcing) RF connection or something.
TVI comes from the radio. The Top One will not clean up your TVI problem until you clean up the radio. |
Buck
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 10:03 pm: |
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Well put 833
Buck |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 10:00 pm: |
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I got my AP from Copper after only 3 days. I'm glad I went ahead and got my mounts on the roof and bought up some other supplies.
Putting the antenna together wasn't all that bad, I did have to start over a time or two at given points. Looks like you need to start at the top and work down. Anyway, I've got it up on the roof top and I'm excited about it. The top is about 25 or 26 feet. The antenna is not an eye sore. Looks good where it is at. I ran a ground wire to a copper ground rod. I tucked and routed the coax very neatly.
I've yet to transmitt on it. My old twenty-something year old J.C. Penny SSB mobile is missing its power cord! The cord is hard to find, I might add. I've been listening to shortwave through it. I must say that not only does it receive very well on 27 mhz but it works a good portion of the shortwave bands in a surprising fashion. It's outperforming my wire and I'm hearing stuff on 160 meter and 20 meters like never before.
I guess I'll go ahead and order that President Lincoln and be done with it. They should make a good pair.
More later,
Mikefromms
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Lyn Wade
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:23 am: |
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Mike I hope you are as happy with your astro plane as I am. I have one of the original astro planes that my dad bought back in the early '70s brand new for $17. I used it in Oklahoma for many years at about 40 or 45 ft. in the air and the spring thunder storms never blew it down. The wind did break the hoop at one time after about 20 yrs of use and abuse, but that was easy to fix. My astro plane has been a great antenna. I've talked to many states and a few other countries on it. I liked it so much I brought it to California with me. Not bad for a 30 year old antenna.
Lyn |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:34 pm: |
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Lyn,
Thanks for the comment and testimony. I do love my Astroplane very much. It's got ears. It is light and the way it wraps around a pole I can see where wind is not an issue. Mine is only like 25 feet to the tip of it mounted on a 10' pole attached to the eve in the center part of the housetop. I went ahead and ran a ground wire to a copper ground rod. The receive is very quiet, little to no electrical static. I'm listening to shortwave with it. I have an all band shortwave Radio Shack receiver. I think Yaesu made this one back in '97.
I went back on the roof yesterday and straightened out the antenna pole so the thing would be perfectly vertical. It looks nice up there. I've ordered a President Lincoln with the mods and it probably will be here tomorrow or Thursday. I look forward to working the airwaves.
Mikefromms
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mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 10:25 am: |
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I need to shake the antenna pole because I have swr problems on transmit on this AP. I blame this on the operator. Should have checked all this before going up.
mikefromms |
mikefromms
| | Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 9:59 pm: |
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Took the AP apart and screwed in the raditor element some more. Replaced the top hat allen screw with a real screw and got it tight. The hardware on these antennas is really not that good. I did, however, fix my swr problem. I'm happy with it now. The system is really quite. |
Dalowe
New member
Username: Dalowe
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 4:39 pm: |
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What kind of antenna is the Top One? It looks like an Astroplane and the one I owned could probably be best described as a variation on a loop antenna. A loop antenna is a piece of wire tuned to a resonant length and connected between the center and shield conductors on your coax. Anyone remember the UHF loop on the back of your TV set? This is not to be confused with a dipole, which is two lengths of wire, at least one tuned to a resonant length, the other, turned or longer than a resonant length (such as a ground plane antenna or even a J-pole.) I figure there really are only two basic types of antennas; dipoles and loops; everything fits into one of those two categories. You really have to look at the DC current path, which is an open in a dipole or ground plane (if you disconnect the matching network), and a short in a loop antenna. The Astroplane makes an electrical loop if you follow the center conductor down through the hoop, up the other side and into the shield side. The top "hat" is a reflector, similar to ground radials. It really is a very different kind of antenna, which is why we all love it. The Astroplane is similar to a single quad antenna, which is really just a loop antenna, a big one - a whole wavelength. The difference is that the Astroplane (or Top One) measures out to about 5/8 wavelength when you flatten out the hoop. |
Marconi
Advanced Member
Username: Marconi
Post Number: 688
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 5:34 pm: |
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Dalowe, do a continuity test on the parts of the AP and see if they confirm your idea about the current path.
It appears that the antenna is insulated, top from bottom, at the mounting bracket, but it is not unless you disconnect the 1/4 wave down element under the feed point from the bottom ring before you test. If you ohm the feed point, shield to center, you might expect to see and open like reading the center of a current fed quad loop or a dipole. However, you will be surprised to see a short and not an open.
You are seeing the antenna as the two 1/4 wave down radials plus the bottom round loop as a 5/8 loop, and the top cap hat element as a ground plan, right? |
Dalowe
New member
Username: Dalowe
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 3:16 pm: |
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I'm going on memory Marconi, I unfortunately sold my Astroplane about 10 years ago. As I recall, the shield was connected to the clamp, which connected to the right side tube, the center connected to the tube below the connector. It was a long time ago though. I run an A99 now. The A99 is easier to mount in trees, which is while I like it. |
Ranger87black
Junior Member
Username: Ranger87black
Post Number: 34
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:25 pm: |
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I just ordered a Top One Astro Plane today to replace my 1 year old Star Duster (newer version). It can't stand up to the wind and it keeps separating in the middle where it's crimped by the factory. Besides that it worked real well for DXing and 20-30 mile local talk. Can't wait to try the AP out. |
Maxgain
New member
Username: Maxgain
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 6:58 pm: |
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The top one or Astro plane is a J-Pole in disguise.
It has about 1.6 dB of gain over a quarterwave ground plane.
Look at it closely. The X on the top is a capacity hat NOT A GROUND PLANE. Capacity hats shorten the physical length of a radiator.
It is NOT a single element quad loop. It is not a loop at all.
Don't be fooled by the loop at the bottom, it's just the bottom of the "J".
A J-Pole is not a dipole.
A dipole is not a ground plane .
Buy an IMax 2000. |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1636
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 1:30 pm: |
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Posted in another fourm, same content-
Maxgain,
I believe you are fooled. The Astro Plane (Top One) is not a shortened J-pole as you suggest. It is an inverted 1/4 wave GP. The reason it is not affected by close proximity to ground is because the current node is at the physical top of the antenna and the voltage node is at the physical bottom. That is your dead giveaway.
Sure, it sorta 'looks' like a J-pole, but it obviously does not work like one. If it did, it would need to be mounted high above ground for good performance.
One more thing, if it were a J-pole, then the bottom of the antenna would be at or very near ground potential. The Astro Plane hoop is quite obviously nowhere near ground potential. |
Romstar
Member
Username: Romstar
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 2:04 pm: |
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I thought someone would jump on Maxgain for that one, but I didn't expect it to be Paul.
The astroplane is a neat design actually, it can be made to do a variety of things depending on how it is mounted, and where.
Darn good antenna actually.
Romstar |
Maxgain
Junior Member
Username: Maxgain
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 4:04 pm: |
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Hmmm, I've taken notes on this one! |
Romstar
Member
Username: Romstar
Post Number: 60
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 4:35 pm: |
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The astroplane drives me kinda batty actually. It's more complex than it looks electrically, but operationally it's almost as simple as they come.
Have fun with this one. |
Tech833
Moderator
Username: Tech833
Post Number: 1637
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 31, 2007 - 10:11 am: |
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To be more precise, it is an inverted folded 1/4 wave GP. It has no significant gain over an end fed 1/4 wave GP, until you take ground effect into consideration. If you are measuring gain on the horizon when mounted close to ground level, then it has considerable gain over an end fed GP.
Years ago, a friend that was installing paging systems for hospitals and other buildings where nothing could stick up above the roof very far, used to mount 1/4 wave ground plane antennas upside down on short poles. He said they worked so much better that way. He discovered what the AP engineers did years ago. |
Ranger87black
Junior Member
Username: Ranger87black
Post Number: 35
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 8:33 pm: |
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I got mine today and set it up right away. I got it on 20 feet of pole on top of a 3 story house and It's working awesome. I'm really impressed on the low to no static!! Very good ears and awesome transmit. |
