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747
Intermediate Member
Username: 747
Post Number: 111
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 9:12 am: | 
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Ok, Yes, this is a true story.. A story of a computer geek turned radio lover, without a clue as to how to run power lines! It is meant to entertain, educate (those who are running power the same way - AND ME), and in typical Copper Forum fashion, share a story! (NOTE: No radio gear was damaged or harmed in any way during the making of this true story!)
I drive a 2004 Chrysler Sebring sedan. While installing power cables a few weeks ago for my radio equipment, I nearly burned the entire car up!
Since I am unskilled at running cables through the fire wall, nor do I want to drill new holes through it, I ran the power lines from the battery , through the driver side fender, down the door (not exposed to the outside of course!) and formed a drip loop, then back up and inside the cabin.
The problem was that the cable I was using was old - apparently VERY old.. These were 10 gauge wires I found in my garage, that I found out the hard way later had very brittle insulation on them.
Anyhow, I had everything hooked up and closed the door and heard this LOUD POP noise.. I looked and saw smoke - then more smoke - then flames moving up the inside of the door cavity, up into the fender then towards the battery!
With literally 2 inches to the battery, I yanked this flaming wire out of the connector and got some nice 2nd degree burns on my hands... BUT - I saved my car, and saved my radio gear!
What happened was that the positive wire had got pinched between the door and the fender - when that happened, the brittle insulation shattered. Yes - SHATTERED. I found another piece of the same wire in the garage and when I applied pressure from my HAND, the insulation broke apart and left exposed wire!
Math lesson - Brittle insulation on positive wire + pressure + negatively grounded car = FIRE!!!
SO, here's where *I* need to be educated.. I need to know a better way to do this - that is NOT going to require me to drill holes! Everyone says to go through a boot in the firewall - well, I honestly have no clue where to look, and then if I knew where I wouldn't know what I am looking at!
One idea I've been given is to cut an X into a drain plug under the sear or elsewhere in the cabin and come in from underneith - but I dunno if my car even has these plugs!
ANY help would be greatly appreciated!! |
Karatebutcher
Senior Member
Username: Karatebutcher
Post Number: 1965
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 9:41 am: |
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I always take my radio and have it installed in the car, and they check it , swr and all. safer for me.
KB |
Coyote
Intermediate Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 251
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:22 am: |
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Not meaning to laugh.. but... 
Look for rubber gromets in the firewall. Sometimes there are holes that are not used and the manufacture plugs them with rubber gromets.
If you cannont find a suitable means of getting the wires into the vehicle, you may have no choice but to drill a new hole, you'll just have make sure there is nothing on the inside where the bit will come through. Oh.. and go get some new wire, the insulation won't be brittle and you "could" run it the way you had, but you would still run the risk of the same thing happening again eventually. |
Thehobo
Junior Member
Username: Thehobo
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 12:50 pm: |
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first and foremost, put fuses in your system as close to the battery as convinent.. some like me fuse both - @ + wires!! but, make sure your hot wire + is fused!! then buy you some good power wire from a stereo shop.. had you fused in the first place?? huummm. but thats water under the bridge!! or over you hands!! alittle pun?? lol
thehobo
274150 am
monitor ch. |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 347
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 2:10 pm: |
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Always, Always, Always Place a fuse very close to the battery.
Chad |
Capt205
Junior Member
Username: Capt205
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 2:39 pm: |
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Make sure that you place an inline fuse at the battery!!!! |
Dale
Intermediate Member
Username: Dale
Post Number: 114
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 3:04 pm: |
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you can use your cigerette lighter get a lighter plug just about anywere radio shack or here at coppers . the plug will have two wires pos. and neg. hook pos. to pos, and neg. to neg.then just simply plug it into your cigerette lighter.ive done this setup for many years with no problems what so ever. |
Barracuda
Intermediate Member
Username: Barracuda
Post Number: 325
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 3:45 pm: |
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747,
2 suggestions;
1) get some nice new wire
2) ask your dealer for the best path to run the wires. Or maybe even let them do it. That way you know you won't void any warranties you may still have on your 2004 vehicle
Free advice worth every penny.
Good luck |
Allagator
Advanced Member
Username: Allagator
Post Number: 639
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 3:55 pm: |
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747 ive done the very same thing ! LOL
but now im useing a new jumper cable without the ends on it ! works great for me ! (run in the fender in the door ) just like yours was done ! and never had a problem ! (so far )
and for the plugs under the body ! my 92 S10 dont have them neather ! and everyone said it does ! but no plugs !
sorry to hear about your hand !
but its better than watching the battery go BOOM ! ( ive done it more than once )
but the boot you should be looking for should be next to the brake booster where the stering shaft comes through !!!
hope this helps !
Allagator
CEF115 |
747
Intermediate Member
Username: 747
Post Number: 112
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 6:30 pm: |
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I *DO* have fuses in line at this time, but replaced the wire with some brand new ones... No issues at this point, but I want to eliminate the possibility of this happening again!
Coyote - Laugh, Laugh Laugh away! YES - it IS funny!! I sat there and laughed the whole time I was typing the story, remembering my roommate saying in his ultra-thick Texas accent , "Your car's on fire man!"
Tomorrow I am going to jack the car up and see if there is any spots towards the bottom that I can get through the firewall.. There *IS* one up top with PLENTY of room, but I have serious concerns that when I feed the wire in, I will have to remove the dash to get to the other end!
Also going to check for drain plugs...
Something I've considered though is taking the car to the local car-stereo shop and having them run the initial power cables.. Their estimate was a heck of a lot cheaper than that which the deal gave me today! |
747
Intermediate Member
Username: 747
Post Number: 113
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 8:23 pm: |
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Allagator,
I have been thinking about your idea with the jumper cables... Good idea - especially since most of the ones i've seen have rubber insulation - won't get thrashed quite as easily as regular wire's insulation.
SO - if I were to use jumper cables - WITH A FUSE - still coming in the same way (through the fender/door), I take it that would be much better than I am currently doing, correct? |
Allagator
Advanced Member
Username: Allagator
Post Number: 640
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 9:27 pm: |
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well with out drilling a hole ! yes go to autozone and for i think 30 bucks ! you can slam them things and never hurt them but not bad for #8 wirebut i have mine running a lincoln,blackcat 300HD + 2 amps for the stereo system ! and so far never had any feedback from the radio+amp into the stereo system !
jumper cables have lots of insulation and will take some real hard power ! 1000+
but i would put a fuse at the batt just for a backup !
hope it helps !!! if you have anymore questions send me IM through COPPER !
ALLAGATOR
CEF115 |
Coyote
Intermediate Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 252
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:01 pm: |
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747, I really didn't want to laugh as I know how serious a battery explosion can be (had one blow in my face, guess thats why I look the way I do) But I got this mental picture of the whole senario... and well.... glad you weren't hurt to seriously and with no explosions or damage to any equipment. |
Waterboy
Junior Member
Username: Waterboy
Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 11:23 am: |
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Dont let this be like Cheech & Chong ( up in smoke) It can happen VERY FAST!!Do it the right way! |
Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 153
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 11:50 am: |
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Take an old wire coathanger and straighten it out. Feed it into the boot from the engine end and locate where the other end is inside the cab.
If it comes out at a usuable place (and not all do) carefully tape the power wire to the end still in the engine bay and pull the hanger complete thru into the cab.
Viola you cable is now run into the cab.
Used this trick many time over the last 30 years both on my vehicles and commercial - in fact for a while I kept a straightend coat hange in my tool kit.
DO NOT run any power line through a door opening. Yes jumper cables may last a longtime under normal usage but that is not normal usage. Do things the right and safe way and then you reduce the chances of anything ever going wrong. NOTE I did say REDUCE nothing is ever perfect and not matter what things can go wrong but why make it easier for that to happpen?
In 30 years in the trade, running wires the correct way I have never suffered from wires being burnt out. |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 353
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 6:10 pm: |
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One can also use welding cable, It's designed for high heat, chemical resistance, hot slag falling on it, and constant flexing. Bad thing it that it usually comes in one color... Observe correct polarity 
If not a car stereo shop can hook you up with heavy guage wire or you can get it off an auction site for cheap for the whole kit including fuse holder. Type in "amp wiring kit"
Chad |
Crackerjack
Advanced Member
Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 668
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 8:36 pm: |
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747: ROTFLOL, I am sorry, but this is funny. I thought that stuff like that ONLY happened to me.
Am fire can really ruin your say.
I found out -by similar but not so dramatic circumstances that proper and new wire was worth the expense. Also, I always place a fuse, in-line near the battery and go one size larger in wire diameter than I thin is really neccessary.
My last Jeep Wrangler was used Off Road, so I had an Electritian friend wire it in a Professional manner -because I could just imagine my wiring chafing or being in adequate. That was a fine installation of a DX-959 and KL-400, with a no SWR 102" SS Whip. |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 2005
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 11:13 am: |
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Or go to a car stereo shop and have them install a premium power system in your car for big amps and they will do all the drilling,looming and blocking,for your high-power set up, only don't tell them it's for a rf amp some wont do it for that,oh and by the way it is pricy but you get a professional looking installation that looks like the car manufacturer made it that way.Bigbob |
Straitjacket
Junior Member
Username: Straitjacket
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 3:36 pm: |
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As a mobile installer myself, I also recomend just bringing it into some guys that do this for a living. I dont think I read any where here what kind of equiptment your using, however a shop will charge you about $45 to $60 bucks depending on where you live. Thats running power to the battery and a short chassis ground near the location of the transmitter. If you want your ground ran to the battery that may be more. For 8awg I would not charge more for that vehicle, but for 4awg which would most likely require two holes drilled, Id charge $60. Dont feel too bad about that fire, you would not believe how often I see that. If your not running an amp, you wont even need 8awg wire. Good luck dude. |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 2010
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 4:38 pm: |
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Well,had my own POOF,the transmission mechanic at the dealer 5 YEARS AGO put my pos cable on uside-down,shorted against the exhaust manifold,intermittantly,my mechanic could not find it,I could not find it till it went poof in the middle of nowhere,but I lucked out,sombody must have tried to steal my battery and when they saw the sparks took off.So the cables were loose,but it would still start so I thought nothing wrong,the cable shorted and killed the alternator(149$)but battery was completely dead but not ruined(whew),with an electric fuel pump,transmission,blower motor,7 miles is it for a fully charged 925 amp battery,that's why I stress big altenators for big amplifiers.A friend of mine now deceased said"There's no substitute for cubic inches except cubic money" we were talking big vs small v-8 engines,I guess the same goes for batteries and alternators.Hey Pat LEESE-NEVILLE,LEESE-NEVILLE,LEESE-NEVILLE,HEHE.Bigbob |
Tech291
Moderator
Username: Tech291
Post Number: 205
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 5:58 pm: |
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Chad,
good news is high visiblity orange welding lead is pretty common but a little more pricey because of flame-proof silicone insulation.
tech291
CEF#291
KC8ZPJ |
747
Intermediate Member
Username: 747
Post Number: 115
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 9:05 pm: |
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Straitjacket,
My equipment - which I have also just posted pictures of in the Members Photos section :
Magnum 257 (new model)
Uniden BCT8 scanner
Palomar Skipper (blue face) 4 pill amp. |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 356
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
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291...
Grrrrr I just ordered a wiring kit for the new stereo. I would have loved to use that stuff (orange) It just seems easier to work with, oh well. Thanks for the heads up!!!
Chad |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 2012
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 5:20 am: |
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I fell prey to the "you can't have too big of cable" 10 years ago,ran 00 welding cable from battery to back of station wagon to power a puny palomar 250,then found out the fuse connector spring was relaxed,to make a long story short those cables were the best jumpers I ever had,my wife never forgave me for cutting a 2" hole with a hole saw in fire wall on her side,mighty drafty in winter till I duct taped.Bigbob |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 6197
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 7:02 am: |
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Bigbob,
Isn't that Duct tape GREAT STUFF! 
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Crackerjack
Advanced Member
Username: Crackerjack
Post Number: 683
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 - 8:44 am: |
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Yea, why doesn't Copper's sell Duct Take? |
