| Author |
Message |
    
Waterboy
Junior Member
Username: Waterboy
Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 4:51 pm: | 
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Was any one used the new S9 with a texas star 667 amp. With astatic575-m6 mic?? |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4826
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 7:21 pm: |
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Waterboy,
This is direct from Sam Lewis Owner of RF Limited / Magnum International.
USE WITH AN AMPLIFIER
The S-3, S-9 and Omega Force S-45 were designed to work with a 4 pill Amplifier like the Texas Star 500 or Similar Amplifier that uses 4 - 2SC2879's.
"DO NOT ATTEMPT" to run the Magnum S-3, S-9 or the Omega Force S-45 with any 2 PILL Amplifier!
Also if you use the Magnum S-3, S-9 or Magnum Omega Force S-45 with an Amplifier that uses an Exciter/Driver you MUST have the radio adjusted for a Dead Key of 4 watts and NO More than 12 watts PEP.
It is Highly Suggested that you have a professional do this.
Now since as yet I have been unable to buy a Texas Star 500 I have not used any amplifiers with them as yet.
Several people have posted that they have used other amps with them but, I personally figure I will follow Sams Directions and avoid any possible chance of blowing something up.
Sorry only mic I have used with them is the Stock Mics and the DM-452 Hand Mic.
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN
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Gijoe
Member
Username: Gijoe
Post Number: 66
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 8:04 pm: |
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Hey Lon,
Would the Texas Star 667 be a good amp to run behind the Mag 257? If not, any suggestions?
Thanks,
Joe |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4830
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 8:08 pm: |
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Gijoe,
YES it should work great! 
I have used the KL-500 and KL-1000 with my new 257 with no problems.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Gijoe
Member
Username: Gijoe
Post Number: 67
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 9:31 pm: |
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Hey Lon,
I'm also looking at the dx 500. In order to run either one of these amps would I need to turn the dead key power down or just hook it up and don't look back. The only thing done to the radio is the Coppers "Modify for 11 meter and Tune Up" option when I purchased the radio. I wouldn't want to overdrive either one of these amps and fry them.
Thanks for any info,
Joe |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4832
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 11:03 pm: |
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Gijoe,
If you are talking about the MAGNUM 257 you already have variable power on it.
If you are talking about the S-9 then YES you will need it backed down to 4 watts and NO more than 12 watts PEP as per my post above from Sam Lewis.
Hope this helps,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 442
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 1:04 am: |
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the S9 has been working with a 667v on AM just fine. swing/mic gain down to under 30 watts swing, dead key @ less then 3 watts. the 2290 driver seems to be alright at this point. when i checked this particular installation it was dead keying about 200 to get max swing around 450. got dead key way up over 350, but little swing, like 360. 120 dead key gets almost 400 swing. it works fine on SSB, but mic gain needs to be backed down almost all the way. doesn't sound good much over 15 watts. 667v has been going strong for over a month with hard daily mobile use. it was his choice to try it, i make no guarantees, hasn't died yet. my davemade 1x4 needs to be backed down SSB as well, class c biased, to make it sound decent, but AM it will handle every bit of swing, at 3 watts deadkey, that the S9 can deliver. |
Waterboy
Junior Member
Username: Waterboy
Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 9:24 am: |
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Thanks every one. I will stay with my Ranger.2 watts dead key and no problems. |
Hotwire
Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 55
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 12:14 pm: |
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I thought an amp can't tell what kind of radio you use? |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4839
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 12:52 pm: |
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Hotwire,
It Can't tell the difference, that is why Sam Lewis told people to save them from blowing the radio or amp up.
The S-3, S-45, and S-9 have more power than most radios and with the Top Gun Modulator DO NOT REQUIRE and Amplifier with a Pre-Amp built in it.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 446
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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that's driver stage, lon not preamp! |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 11:12 pm: |
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Call it whatever you like, it's the same thing. I'd call it the first stage or primary stage of amplification. I don't quite understand why they use such a potent transistor to do the job, but it seems to be rather common with amplifier makers.
Lon's quite correct to point out that it's not necessary with a radio that can do at least 28 watts PEP.
The 500V would be the better choice as you don't need the first stage of amplification, the variable power makes it easy to dial back any excess input power, and either the S-9 or the 257 would be powerful enough to easily reach the full rated output.
I don't understand what the Top Gun Modulator has to do with it, but then I don't understand why anyone would want it anyway. |
Hotwire
Member
Username: Hotwire
Post Number: 64
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 10:21 am: |
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OK Lon I got ya. Thank you sir. |
Mrbigshot
New member
Username: Mrbigshot
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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the modulator is just that, a small amp that carrys a small dead key and a heavy swing, 4 watt deadkey 40 watt peak. like a texas star mod v or stinger board. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 453
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
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the modulator is for AM, like mrbigshot says, to get lots of swing/peak watts with little dead key. unfortunately, magnum's 'modulator' system on the S9 is overkill.
not enough dead key to key anything bigger then a 4x2sc2879 and too much swing/pep for standard smaller amps. you could use the S9 to key a 4x2879 amp in turn driving a 16x2879 amp,producing around 2000 watts. you just got into multiple/modified alternators & batteries, not something the average vehicle can handle. now a texas star 8x2879 will work driven by a 2x2290 & a 'normal' radio, & can be made to work fairly well in a mostly stock pre-computer car for nearly a kw. however, the S9 sounds like *%#@ pushing 2-2290's. the idea of a modulator is to turn the 1:4 dead key:swing formula into 1:10 maybe, & make it sound good, not underdriven, fuzzy, off-freq sounding, like making a 4x2879 key 40 & swing 400.
forget the joe shmo cbers who just crank everything up & assume it is great, but the 'ch6' types show tremendous amounts of ingenuity at getting things to do what they weren't made to do. |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 2:56 pm: |
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I know what a real modulator stage does, and I know what an amplifier does, but I have no idea what this device called a modulator does by adding swing to an AM signal. Or should I say I don't know what it does by reducing the carrier - because that's apparently all it does.
AM doesn't swing much. If you fully modulate an AM carrier, the AVERAGE power will increase by only 50% over the carrier power alone. So if you have a 4 watt carrier, a 100% modulated AM signal will show as 6 watts of average power. Not much swing.
The 4:1 swing that people quote is PEP and CANNOT be measured by a meter of any kind regardless of what anyone tells you. PEP meters try to approximate the PEP output of a transmitter, but only get close with a a solid and constant tone - not human voice. PEP can only be accurately measured electronically by an oscilloscope which is fast enough to watch the RF envelope.
Want a really swinging signal? Use SSB. It's all swing, and it's all modulation. AM is cool because you don't need to be on frequency, it sounds pretty good, and it's simple to use. But it doesn't have big swing. It never has, and it never will.
You could try double sideband without a carrier. It would be a little easier to use than SSB, but you still need to be dead on frequency to receive the signal just right. There's a mod for most radios that are based on the standard 148 design where you can switch the carrier on and off. I've never done it or heard it on the air, but it sounds a lot like the what most of you are looking for with swing. |
Supertech1
Junior Member
Username: Supertech1
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 10:06 pm: |
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If you use a emitter-follower transistor amplifier between the driver and final stage of an am radio, you can set the voltage on the driver so low, your final rf can be .1 watt. and when you modulate, the added amp circuit applies full dc power to the driver hence the final rf output will track with modulation to full output.
I have been doing this mod. for years and I can get 1:10 or better swing ratios without trying. and the amps run alot cooler without that wasteful idle wattage. Audio sound clean,crisp and LOUDER than anything out there. I am not advertizing anything, so don't ask. If 'copper' is interested in my supertech swing-mod., he may contact me.
*************TUNE FOR MAXIMUM SMOKE************* |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 141
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
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And this saves you how much money on your 'lektrik bill? |
Supertech1
Junior Member
Username: Supertech1
Post Number: 29
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 10:18 pm: |
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if you talk alot, every day...it saves quite a bit! |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 5:54 pm: |
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If swing gave AM better range AM broadcast stations would swing a great deal but they don't. If you monitor AM stations their signal barely fluxuates at all. I watch the audio of their signal on my TS450 and even that barely fluxuates. It's a wall of sound that doesn't swing. |
Supertech1
Junior Member
Username: Supertech1
Post Number: 32
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 10:22 pm: |
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THAT'S BECAUSE THEY RUN 50,000 WATTS PLUS AND ANY 'SWING' AT THAT POWER LEVEL WILL STRESS THE TRANSMITTER.--SHORTEN THE LIFE OF THE BIG TUBES--WHICH ARE EXPENSIVE$$$$. BESIDE, THEY DO NOT NEED TO COMPETE WITH ANYONE ON THEIR FREQ.
If 2 signals on the same channel come in to your recieve..you hear hetrodyne(a tone-the bfo difference of both freq.)both audios are squelched by that annoying tone.
if one has a lower carrier with swing...even if it is less pep, you can hear that persons audio clearly in the background. |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 6:08 am: |
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If a 100% duty cycle doesn't stress the components, then how does less than a 100% duty cycle stress them? That sounds like the same kind of argument you hear from car stereo salesmen who tell you that loud music doesn't damage your hearing as much as noise does. There is no basis in fact, and they're trying to sell you something so they tell you what you want to hear.
I don't know where you live, but when the sun sets I get all kinds of AM activity. I often hear two or more stations at a time mixing on the same frequency and usually without heterodyning because the signals are of different strengths. That's why AM is still used for air traffic communications. It's very difficult to completely block out other stations on AM. There's no capture effect like FM.
IF swing made for better range don't you think AM radio stations would use it? They go to the trouble of using phased antenna arrays with tremendous groudning systems along with huge amounts of audio processing to make their signal as strong as possible. The fact is that AM works best with a full carrier and as close to 100% modulation as possible. If anything worked better commercial AM stations would have used it long ago. |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 6:53 am: |
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If a transmitter can handle a 100% duty cycle, a duty cycle of less than 100% wouldn't cause a problem.
I don't know where you live, but when the sun goes down where I am I get lots of AM radio stations I don't get during the day, and often more than one on a frequency. I rarely hear heterodyning because there is usually a stronger station and weaker stations in the backround. Even if you have a very strong station it's difficult to keep from hearing the the weaker stations in the backround. This is why AM is still used for air traffic. There is no capture effect like on FM.
If there was a way for AM broadcast stations to have a stronger signal they would do it. They go to the trouble and expense to use directional antenna arrays with extensive grounding systems and high levels of processing to keep their signals as strong as possible. If there was a way to do more they would. They're in business to make money. They do that by having the biggest footprint as possible with the best signal as possible. The larger their footprint the more listeners they have and they can charge more for advertising.
BTW - Most AM broadcast stations use less than 50,000 watts, and in my area there are no local stations that are over 5,000 watts during the day or night. I don't live in a large area so I checked a website with information for the DC metro area. Of the 49 total AM stations there are only 7 that use 50,000 watts, and 4 more that use over 5,000 watts. The rest are 5,000 or less. And those are daytime power levels. At night most stations drop power.
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Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 143
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 10:43 am: |
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I might add on the volume competition. Buuuuhloney! In modern broadcast it is prime honor to be the loudest on the dial, stations spend tens of thousands of dollars on audio processing to get there. We aint talking a comp/limiter either. I'm not saying I like my music/speech squeezed to the hilt but that's what the mass dictates and volume sells ads, ad sales pays the bills to keep you on the air, and hired.
As racer X pointed out 50KW of AM is huge, a 50KW station in the Chicago area can be heard in Cuba and farther at night (they don't have to reduce power) OTOH 50KW FM is garden variety.
If your audio is squeezed up you won't see swing anyway until you start and stop talking, get to 100%, don't go over, and hit it as much as you can, this will get you heard. Swinging needles just look purdy, I like my mod meter up there and not swinging, same with power, use it, don't waste time swinging.
Also "loud" IS the duty cycle of your AF signal, as your waveform duty cycle approaches 100% your volume sounds "louder" Sooooo why waste time getting your idle wattage down there when in reality your speech should have as high of duty cycle as possible to attain maximum volume?
Ask ANY broadcast professional and they will say the same.
As for power savings by using "swing mods" did you see my calculations a few weeks ago? They are kind of sobering. Especially if you are using a motor to turn an alternator, not the most efficient way to make juice at 12V.
A couple deep cycle batteries and a switch mode smart charger is way more efficient and provides more instantaneous current (need that for "swing" eh?) This can also be done for less than 200 bucks and won't rip any fingers off, SM chargers don't even exhibit a low level hum from the transformer either.
I guess in reality I have a swing mod too. When i key the mic I go from 0 watts to whatever my dead key is, I immediately start talking, when i am done I imediately unkey, wham back down to 0 watts, now that's swing |
Topten
Intermediate Member
Username: Topten
Post Number: 190
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 10:57 am: |
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Just got a new Texas Star 500 V and it's behind my Magnum S-45, what a sweet combo! The 500 will take every bit of what the S-45 can dish out in stride and sound clean, clear, and crisp. Mr. Lewis knows what he is talking about. Any amp with four 2sc2879's in either class AB1 or C will work just fine. Believe it or not, it's really the first 100 watts that counts the most, after that it's just a few db's higher on the other guys meter. That why it also pay's to have a excellent antenna system. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4888
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
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Topten,
GOOD DEAL!
While many others out there can say this works and that works it is always nice to hear DIRECT from the man that had them designed, built and tested as to what will work and give you the best overall performance without de-tuning the radio to make it work.
Maybe now we can connect on the Sunday CEF Nets.
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 2:06 pm: |
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Chad - That topic is your post with calculations in? I was looking and couldn't find it. |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 2:14 pm: |
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Sorry for the dual posts - My browser threw a fit when I was looking at the DCRTV web page and my machine blue screened. I don't really know how the post was sent, but it was late and I was more than a bit tired. |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 144
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 3:24 pm: |
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I wonder if it may not have gone away, I looked around too! I expressed the calculation in kilowatt hours, I searched my name (and) Kilowatt hour, also my name and KWH to no avail. I may have the numbers somewhere here on my desk. I'll look around, I cleaned recently so I may have to re-do.
Chad |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 3:51 pm: |
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OK found it! Click search, type: save 2950
Select "and"
It was item number 6
under: "ask the tech" topic: "dead key"
I think you may hafta be registered to view it. |
Purplehaze
Junior Member
Username: Purplehaze
Post Number: 47
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 9:20 pm: |
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Patzerozero
Are you saying the s-9 is resposnible for such low wattage you are getting of the 667.. it should do much more... sounds like you have power issues lack of amps... |
Racer_x
New member
Username: Racer_x
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 9:48 pm: |
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THX |
Supertech1
Junior Member
Username: Supertech1
Post Number: 34
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:40 am: |
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Why is it when I run with max swing, my amps run sooo much cooler than when I run a high deadkey? Isn't that alone worthwhile and easier on yer equipment?
True: it does look 'purdyier' on the meter and thats why most people like it.
Granted--you are not saving tremondous money(maybe 1 dollar in a year)
The 50kw I was refering to is 640khz am kfi radio operating just inside mexican border south of san diego.
"skip land" doesn't 'hetro' because of naturally occuring phase shifting in the atompheric reflection.
Carrier controlling 'swing' doesn't increase modulation over 100%. the modulation envelope % is not what is swinging. the modulation % is the same as the carrier rises when you talk. 'Swing' is only a signal level that changes with audio. Think of it like having yer hand on your carrier control adj. on your dx99v while you talk and with every word you speak, you crank that carrier up and down---same effect from a swing mod. Your audio is what drives your carrier level.
but it doesn't 'hetro' and it does seem to talk further for some reason.
Is it nessesary--of course not! It's just 'cool'
----------anyway.................------------
****TUNE FOR MAXIMUM SMOKE*************** |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 737
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 9:51 am: |
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Topten: You said,
"The 500 will take every bit of what the S-45 can dish out in stride and sound clean, clear, and crisp."
Just wondered, when you're using the TS500 how do you have the S-45 set up, what's the deadkey, do you run the topgun modulator, and where do you set the mike gain. thanks, scrapiron
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Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 147
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 9:54 am: |
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It runs cooler because it's duty cycle is lower, This is very dependent on how you are squeezing your audio. If the audio is smashed and loud going into the RF stage then the "swing" will not swing till you stop talking. If your audio has dynamics your swing will correspond thus reducing the duty cycle on the amplifier. Most broadcast amplifiers have a very high duty cycle as the audio is squeezed to the hilt, a properly designed amplifier, run within it's specs, will last a good long time with no swing mods and a high duty cycle.
Does the 50KW AM in your area have to reduce power at night? Have you heard reports as to how far it can be heard at night? Sometimes these reports can be amazing! The one I was referring to was 890AM WLS out of Chicago, I have heard reports of it being heard in Mexico. I used to listen to it late nights all the time in the southern states when I was on the road. That thing is a Flamethrower, I've had tours of the station and transmitter facilities and it's pretty cool. They actually have a tower in the 'burbs and not on a skyscraper, I can't remember tower height off the top of my head. They are set up to blow south but on a good night you may hear it in the west.
Another question, when using the swing mod, what's the IM distortion look like? How is that kept under wraps? I sometimes wonder if the high IMD figure is why locals say modulated radios sound distorted but ones farther away don't.
Chad |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 738
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:03 pm: |
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About those 50KW AM stations, from the 1930 period, the FCC granted many of those clear channel licenses for 50,000 watts, clear channel meant that no stations in this country and even neighboring countries used that frequency. It was so people way out in the boonies could receive a decent signal. Sometimes in the 1960 period I believe, they canceled a lot of those stations but left enough so they could cover the country in an emergency. You can hear them at night time under skywave conditions across the country, i've listened to Nashville WSM and the Cardinal baseball team on St Louis KMOX all across this country in my car. I still listen to lots of those Clear Channel stations here at home on my old tube type radios at nightime. But these stations were/are just babies.
Back around 1960 a DJ named Bob Smith started on the east coast playing rock and roll and rhythem and blues. He later moved down to Shreveport, LA, became pretty famous there and then in Texas, and stirred up a lot of trouble with some people. He then moved down to Mexico to XERF-AM, a 250,000 watt power house. At night they covered this country, Canada and who knows where else. Bob Smith was probably the most famous DJ of those times,and maybe all time, then later he was in movies and on television. Oh yeah, his radio name was Wolfman Jack. |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 149
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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Cool history lesson! I always listen to AM on old tube types, they just work so much better. My fave is a PINK clock radio, that thing can really pull them in. I have a multitude as I collect antique radios and restore most (all that use AC) Most of which have the clear channel station ID's on them still and tune them right in like it was yesteryear.
Chad |
Racer_x
New member
Username: Racer_x
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 5:20 pm: |
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"I Heard it on the X" - ZZTop
Do you remember
Back in nineteen sixty-six?
Country jesus, hillbilly blues,
That’s where I learned my licks.
Oh, from coast to coast and line to line
In every county there,
I’m talkin’ ’bout that outlaw x
Is cuttin’ through the air.
Anywhere, y’all,
Everywhere, y’all,
I heard it, I heard it,
I heard it on the x.
We can all thank doctor b
Who stepped across the line.
With lots of watts he took control,
The first one of it’s kind.
So listen to your radio
Most each and every night
’cause if you don’t I’m sure you won’t
Get to feeling right.
Anywhere, y’all,
Everywhere, y’all,
I heard it, I heard it,
I heard it on the x.
- Billy Gibbons, Dusty Hill & Frank Beard |
Racer_x
New member
Username: Racer_x
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 5:52 pm: |
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I always assumed that clipped limiters and modulation in excess of 100% were the reason people sound bad locally. I run with my limiters adjusted to 100% maximum and never have been told I sound bad locally, yet with the speech processors I use I have really high average modulation.
With a non-functioning limiter voice peaks over 100% modulation are lost as additional sidebands on other frequencies. Because the local signal is so strong receiver's automatic gain attenuates incomming signals to the point where it can't pick up the slop from the adjacent frequencies.
But at a distance when the signal strength isn't as strong and the automatic gain hasn't attenuated the signal as much the receiver can pick up the slop on adjacent frequencies, the additional sidebands are blended in, and the signal sounds better.
Of course If you're using a radio that has very tight filtering it doesn't matter how low the signal strength is, it still sounds bad. When I listen to AM CB on my TS450 I have to use very WIDE filtering.
For AM broadcast listening I use my TS450 because I like the options of the filters and being able to shift the IF to avoid interference. If I'm away from the TS450 I use a Superadio 3 which has been modified a little to allow for more sensitivity and selectivity on narrow mode. I sometimes use a Select-A-Tenna along with a Sangean 818CS if I want to tape what I'm hearing. |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 739
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:13 pm: |
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Hey Chad, that's cool about the radio collection. I've got a few myself. I'm not great at restoring, just replace tubes, caps, lights, tuning cords, things that are pretty simple. Here's probably the best one i've got, a 1941 Philco. The box on top is a wireless remote, Philco first made the remote for some models in 1938 thur 1941.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/PhilcoRemote.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/Philco1941.jpg
It's got the standard broadcast band and 3 shortwave bands.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/Philcodial.jpg
Here's a close up of the wireless remote. It's got a small board inside with one tube. It used a strange shaped battery, I believe 37 or 38 volts. This radio came from the west coast, I looked those stations up and I believe they were all in California. You preset your stations on the radio, then dialed around to the stop, pushed it down and it sent a signal to the radio. There are 5 tubes in the radio just for the remote. It also changed the volumn. This radio has a big speaker and really nice sound. I guess you know this hobby is almost as bad as CB.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/Remotefor1941Philco.jpg
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Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 463
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:35 pm: |
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WOW!
there's about 30 comments that need to be made here, but not enough time to address 'em all today.
i've listened to my NY mets on 660wfan AM from tampa til i stopped driving to sleep in SC. and from the VA/NC border to LI. that's the difference of the signal being on 660khz, vs 50kw @27 mhz. 50kw on 27mhz is not going to to produce that signal ground wave for a 500 mile distance.
glad i got that much off of my chest. for now. |
Mrhappy
Intermediate Member
Username: Mrhappy
Post Number: 146
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 6:54 pm: |
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Hey Lon, what about the S9 with a 2x8 Joker, or bigger ?
Just thinking about that as my new toy, the S9 that is, any input on that radio would be appreciated. |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4911
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 10:01 pm: |
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Mrhappy,
Sorry I have no idea how it would work.
Personally I would not even try it.
I tend to listen to the man that had it designed and has them manufactured and tested as to what to use with the S-9.
Just my personal thoughts,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Topten
Intermediate Member
Username: Topten
Post Number: 191
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 2:32 am: |
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Scrapiron,
Usually, I run it at a 2 watt dead key into the amp with the MTX or modulator off. The radio is plenty loud in the standard mode, and keep the mike gain at the 1 o'clock position. With the amp in the low power mode it gives me a 15 watt dead key, and a swing up to 125 peak. So that's roughly 40 watts rms watts or so while speaking. With the modulator on and the same 2 watt dead key it really swings like crazy, giving out roughly 90 watts rms and peaking out at just over 200. On full power it still sounds clear and with a two watt input it puts out a 150 watt dead key and swing to nearly 500 peak with the modulator off. Turning on the modulator the with the same two watt dead key with the amp on high power will trip/reset my pyramid 50 amp power supply, guess I gotta "go to the store and get some more", amps that is. Anyway, I like the 2 watts in = 15 watt dead key and swing up to 125 the best. It talks all over the place, and I have been told by numerous other radio operators that im just too loud and to turn it down, so that's why I keep the modulator off. I'm using an I-Maxx 2000 w/gpk and three eight foot grounding rods with an 8 guage solid copper wire running all the way up the pole and clamped on to the ground plain kit, more grounds is more better here in the lightning capital. Mr. Lewis really knows his stuff, any amp with four 2sc2879's is an ideal match for any Magnum radio. Hope this enlightens you somewhat. |
Topten
Intermediate Member
Username: Topten
Post Number: 192
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 3:09 am: |
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Hey all, I have a Sanyo RP8700 multi band radio that I bought new in 1977. This radio picks up just about everything on AM at night. I had it with me in while I was stationed at Rota Spain in the Navy, and on a good night it would pick up 770 WABC, 880 WCBS, 1010 WINS, & WBZ 1030 in Boston. Sure do wish that I sent letters to all those stations for QSL cards! Also I used to work on Lockheed P-3 Orion's, these planes have about a forty foot long wire that the ADF radio uses and it can tune in the regular AM band, one time while I was on det to Lajes Azores using the ADF I could listen to just about the entire east coast all the way into the Midwest, Atlanta, and New Orleans. While I was in Iceland radio stations from the Northeast & Canada would boom in at night as well as most of the European mainland. Just a treasure trove of dx'ing out there and I’m grateful to have experienced it. |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 740
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
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Thanks Topten, the 2 watt keyup, topgun off and mike gain at 1:00 is how i've ran mine into several different transistor amps. I've had a S-45 for about a year and half, ordered one when Copper first got them in. I've just used it in my shop as a base, I did try it once in my truck to check the receive for motor or other noise. If I run an amp with this radio, most of the time it's been a tube type that will take high drive, and I mean by that 30-40-50 watt keyup. With this amp, I turn the radio up to about 6-7 watts AM, but with the topgun on the modulation will still be too strong for close stations, by close I mean within 50 miles. I leave the mike gain at 1:00 all time, and the topgun off most of the time. Of course the topgun doesn't effect sideband, and I turn the variable power up to 30 watts or so on sideband and this tube amp will take that without any problem.
Back to transistor amps, i'm not suggesting anyone else try this, as we know what is recommended for these radios, but i've experminted with several different amps. The setup for the radio was always 2 watts deadkey, topgun off and mike gain at 1:00. In the past I have tried a TS667, it was the old type without the variable, also a Boomer 200. These are amps I just happen to have, and got good reports with both. Just this past week, since I have both, i've tried the radio on a TS250 and a TS Killer Bee 250. The TS250 is the old style with 4 stages. I got good reports with both of these also, on both I was talking about 150+ pep watts. This was like I said in the shop under controlled conditions where I could watch the meters, modulation,etc, and know that I was not overdriving the amps. Mobil operation would be different, you would most of all need a meter inline to be sure of your output. I was running on power supply at 13.8 volts, most cars or trucks will put out right at 15 volts when running, this will greatly change the output of the radio/amp setup.
I have not tried this radio on a TS500, but I have owned a TS500 in the past. Back when I ran 2510's in my mobiles, I got the idea since the 2510 had the big 40 watt final, maybe I could run 8-10 watts keyup into a 500 and get about the same results as a 667 since they run the same finals. It didn't work for me, I couldn't get quality sound with more than 5 watts in, and could never get the 500+ pep like the 667 would do with low input. Would the 100-150 watts difference show on the other end, probably not, but you know how meter watchers are. Just some testing results from an old dummy here. Scrapiron |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 150
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 2:05 pm: |
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Scrapiron,
That philco is beautiful! Good find! I haven't been shopping lately, Went thru a divorce 'bout this time last year and just got settled into a new (larger) home. Come springtime I'll go looking again. Just got an old Zenith going, Love those tuning eyes. I may start doing meter projects with tuning eyes. Look purdy in my live sound rack across the mains Maybe a tuning eye mod meter! |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 745
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 4:15 pm: |
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Thanks for the kind words on the Philco, it is something special. I found it at an estate sale, some people had retired here to Arkansas in a resort town on this lake nearby.
Hey that tuning eye for a meter would be great. I've just got one radio that has the eye, here's some pics of it, it's the oldest radio I have that works, it's almost as old as I am. It's a 1938 Wards Airline, has the standard broadcast and one shortwave band.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/1938WardsAirline.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/WardsAirline1938.jpg
It's still in my shop, been messing with it, has a little problem I can't find. If plays good, but every so often the volume will go down and a hum starts. I can flip the band switch back and forth and it will correct. It receives well with an outside wire antenna. Here's a pic when I had it out of the case, had to replace the dial cord, the one big cap, a rectifier tube and mod tube. The dial is faded on the right side, but doubt if I could ever find a new one. They are available for that Phlco.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/Airline1938.jpg |
Chad
Intermediate Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 152
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:49 pm: |
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If you have a bypass cap going bad from the phase splitter to the power tubes this will happen, I couldn't tell the power amp arrangement from the top but when it happens does one of the plates in the power tubes start getting red? Moving the band switch may jolt the power amp back into submission or vary the plate voltage on the phase splitter enough to clear it up.
Also check the bias supply, all selinium should go, but bias voltage will decrease (more negative) with silicon so be ready to sub in some resistors. Or run it cold, it will sound like poo but the tubes will last forever
I have an old scott 299c here that is getting flaky like that, one of my favorite amps right now in the house, just retired it to the shop for a rebuild, kinda sad! Lotta stuff in there for an older simple tube amp, like the Ampeg of the hi-fi world Would like to find a scrapper 299c to build a power amp out of. The 6AU8 before the power tubes is the phase splitter and gain stage. 3 tubes a channel, it would look sooo chic! Tranny's sound great too!
Oh well time to exercise the dynacos!
Chad |
Scrapiron63
Advanced Member
Username: Scrapiron63
Post Number: 747
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 2:00 pm: |
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Thanks for the tips Chad. Haven't noticed the power tubes changing when it drops down, but will look for that. One thing about this old stuff it will give you something to keep busy with. I got that old Airline from an old farm house not far from where I live, the lady having the sale said she knew it had been sitting in that same place in that old tintop house for 50 years. I'd bet they ordered if from Montgomery Ward by mail, the nearest Wards would have been Little Rock, 70 miles away. The pushbuttons were gone or broke, I replaced them with knobs from an old Johnson Viking 352 CB radio. Here's another of my collection, a 1941 Sears Silvertone. I listen to it about every night, Classic County from WSM 650 in Nashville, Tennessee. The knobs were in bad shape, so I replaced them with gold ones from a Browning Mark III receiver untill I find some others. They match pretty good.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Familystuff/SearsSilvertone1941.jpg |
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