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Message |
    
Mister455
New member
Username: Mister455
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 2:34 am: | 
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First off, let me give you a little background about my situation. I currently use my VERY modest CB Base Station to talk with a old friend in Canada about 2-3 times per week. After years of being out of this "hobby", the bug has bitten me again, and i enjoy it as much or more than i did many years ago.
I am a licensed HAM, but with my current license, i'm not exactly happy. I plan to upgrade in the very near future, but i have always loved the 11 meter band.
So, currently i'm in the process of rebuilding my 11 meter "Station".
Now I've been looking at amps left and right and have my eye on a few for normal "everyday" use when conditions call for it; BUT there is always room for more power right?
Now i am NOT wanting to hear people rant about illegal this and that; so dont post your moral, ethical or legal comments to me. Preach to someone who actually cares. I dont.
I do have ALOT of respect for people who run a "clean" and good sounding station, regardless of power and other legalities.
My goal is to own a roughly 5000 watt PEP amp in the near future. Why? Because i can. No other reason for it, and no other reason is really needed now is it?
My question is, if you were in my shoes, Who would you have build this amp and/or what parts might you use in this amp? Would you go solid state (Pills) or Tube type?
My main goals are:
#1- Roughly 5000 watts PEP
#2-Extremely CLEAN signal. (On par with HAM grade HF amps such as Ameritron, QRO, etc etc)
#3- Able to operate on 11 meter ONLY. I dont plan to use this on ANY HAM or other bands.
#4- Able to be used on AM, FM and SSB. (I do use these 3 modes on 11 meter)
#5- Be built with high quality parts and easily "loaf" at 5000w PEP. So i would like some "headroom" built into the amp.
So, if you were building or having someone build this amp, what would you want put into your "box"?
I was thinking something along the lines of 2-3 "decent" tubes (Perhaps 3CX800's or 3CX1500's), a Peter Dahl transformer and some other nice items.
Now, who would you give your $$ to that would build this kind of amp? And what would it cost (Rough idea)?
Is my figure of roughly $4500.00 off the mark?
Keep in mind, i don't intend to use this amp for "blabber mouth" rants on Channel 6 or other popular AM channels. I mainly operate on SSB and sometimes FM. I do have a very good antenna and base radio setup in the works. TVI is something i try to avoid at all costs as well.
Thank you for your time and replys (If any reply.)
Mister 455 |
Topten
Intermediate Member
Username: Topten
Post Number: 188
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
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M455, 5kw is a bit of over kill for 11 meters. Seems like your goal is to blast others off the air when your key'ed up. You could do quite well with half that power, I'd suggest that you find a good Harris 10 Meter Class AB AMP that will also work on 11 Meters. There are plenty of other makes and models that will do the job as well. Hope this helps...
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Chad
Member
Username: Chad
Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
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$4500 for just the amp or are you talking feedline, connectors, etc? You just can't loaf 5000 watts down RG8.
If money is no object then I would look into modifying commercial broadcast amps. I would not really trust anyone but a reputable company to build a 5000 watt amp for safety reasons alone.
At that power you need drive and an IPA also.
Do you have some time to look around?
Do you understand the hazards of RF exposure at these levels of radiation?
How far away is your radiating element from your shack, home, place where kids/pets roam?
Yep, it sounds a little crazy, but it can be done, don't skimp on anything, I don't want to hear about another silent key! |
Dd18
Junior Member
Username: Dd18
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 11:38 am: |
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Henry have an 8k that would work but you would have to search the Internet for AMP builders to build one to fit your needs.
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Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 1:07 pm: |
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Where do you live? I'd like to know if I need to start selling my CB equipment and taking down my antennas. |
Mister455
New member
Username: Mister455
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 3:57 pm: |
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I was expecting around $4500.00 for just the amp, completely built and ready to rumble.
I have ZERO desire to blast anyone off the air. If i hear someone else on the frequency trying to make a contact, i am always more than glad to allow the other station to make a contact. Thus i never intentionally key up on anyone.
Sure 5000w is overkill, but alot of guys run alot more than this on AM and sound like dogs doing it. My goal was to have 5000 watts of clean power and sound good with it.
Power cable isn't a problem. Several companies have line that can handle 5000 watts for quite awhile. Although it isn't cheap, nothing in my future shack is going to be cheap...LOL.
Yes i do understand RF exposure.
The shack will be a very simple "Shed" away from my house and basically in the middle of a small tree lined area.
A homebrew 8 element Yagi will be on a 55' Tower and serving as the main antenna. Perhaps a vertical omni antenna as well.
No kids, no pets and nobody i care about will come in contact or near the shack. All others can get shocked for being stupid....just kidding.
This station will be my "personal retreat" from the daily hum drum and will pretty much be home to all my CB and HAM gear. All this is dependent on me getting a new house and piece of land i am looking at.
Like i said, i have no desire to be a "big dog" and run others off the porch so to speak; but when i hear some rare DX in the receiver, i want to be 100% sure i can reach them as well.
This question is pretty hypothetical right now and totally dependent on my future purchase of a new house. Otherwise, I'm sure i'll be very happy with a simple Texas Ranger Base unit and a KLV amp or something along the same lines.
Thanks for the input guys. Much appreciated.
Mister 455 |
Kid_vicious
Intermediate Member
Username: Kid_vicious
Post Number: 152
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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solid state would be craziness! definitely use tubes. you will need to consider the power input to your house. most likely you will need three phase power and 220 volts. i think 4500.00 is a conservative estimate at best. i believe you will be close to the 10,000 dollar mark before you are done.
what kind of antenna do you have? if it were me, i would want the 5K too, but not until i had a super beam antenna way up in the air. an 8 element beam with 100 watts will gwt out much further than 5,000 watts into a ground plane. i know that you didnt want opinions on whether or not to do this or not, but your ultimate goal is to get out as far as possible isnt it?
matt |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 4572
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 5:11 pm: |
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Personally, I would save a ton of money and get an older Heathkit SB-220 or a Commander HF-2500 with (Eimac 3CX800A7 tubes) as no one would be able to tell the difference.
And there would not be 1 "S" unit difference between them and a 5 KW Amp to someone hearing you on the other end or looking at there meters.
And you save about $1500.00 or more for other toys. 
And always remember,
BIG BOYS NEED BIG TOYS 
Just a thought,
Lon
Tech808
CEF808
N9OSN |
Kc8tyk
New member
Username: Kc8tyk
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 5:51 pm: |
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Just get a AL1200 that loaf's at 1500 watts and a Laser 500 that has a power multiplication 0f 60x. should be close to $2700.00 total.
Do the math i'm to lazy. If i'm right you should be able to wipeout everything within a 400ft radius. along with talk to any station on the freq at that time 73 Tim |
That ELCO Guy (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:12 pm: |
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Re 455...
Just to remind you that when you do upgrade in ham license not to forget that the MAX power PEP applied to finals is 1500 watts. And since no final is 100% efficient that means your total power output actual can not excede 1500 watts.
You should also be informed that since Sept 11th the FCC has absolutely no sense of humor so try to stay out of trouble.
That Ol ELCO Guy |
Coyote
Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:33 pm: |
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And just think, with 5KW he can warm the shack, make coffee, breakfast, maybe bake a cake and talk to Pluto all at the same time! 
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Mdiver
Intermediate Member
Username: Mdiver
Post Number: 209
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:35 pm: |
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Mister455
Get a Antenna that will work for you..".beem " me up Scotty
Hope you get what you want.
CEF-
252 |
Coyote
Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 74
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:45 pm: |
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And just think, with 5KW he can warm the shack, make coffee, breakfast, bake a cake and talk to Pluto all at the same time!
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Kc8tyk
New member
Username: Kc8tyk
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 6:53 pm: |
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5kw is not that bad considering a freind of mine after he passed away, a dummy load was found with 1 7/8 inch hardline going to his dummy load able to handle well over 15 kw. also this same size hardline ran up his tower to his antenna. problem is the hardline connectors cost more than his main radio and amp and hardline put together. but I would say he had no loss. I think he could make coffee, breakfest, lunch, dinner, along with bake a cake and power his christmas light all at the same time. I may have missed something but all well you get the idea. 73 Tim |
Road_warrior
Intermediate Member
Username: Road_warrior
Post Number: 259
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 8:51 pm: |
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5000 Big ONES./ Woo Wee./ Hope you live miles
& miles away from your nearest neighbor and
town...LOL/ Your catch a RF tan off that much
radiating power./ Heck, you may start a forest
fire./ I wish you the best./
JIM/CENTRAL PA/CEF 375
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Coyote
Member
Username: Coyote
Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 10:19 pm: |
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whoa.. how'd i manage to double post that... hummmmmm.... to much RF radiation!? lol |
Mister455
New member
Username: Mister455
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 3:21 pm: |
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Haha Thanks for the replies guys. Much appreciated. Years ago i used to run a Heathkit Sb-220 and i was very happy with it.
110v & 220v will both be available in the shack since some things i have planned (Such as the HAM HF band amp i am looking at) requires 220v.
Yes, i am very aware of the 1500w "Limit" for HAM's and other such laws. Again, This amp will not be designed for HAM bands at all. Could i use it? Sure could, and i'm sure other HAM's exceed 1500w at times too. This amp is strictly for 11 meters.
As for the FCC, I don't worry about them. When the man wants "drop the maul" on me, he'll get me one way or another.
I honestly don't consider 5000watts to be a ton of power to be quite honest. We all know several guys run alot more than this.
Assuming I get my new house and plot of land, my closest neighbor will be roughly 1 mile away in each direction.
If i cannot find someone i am comfortable with to build this amp, chances are I'll use a RM Italy KLV-1000 and be happy pumping it's power into my homebrew 8 element Yagi @ 55'.
As for the massive RF power: It's always nice when you can cook eggs on your amp or off the antenna isn't it? Just kidding.....
My friend in northern Canada and i talk with very modest setup's right now, and i have done it with 12 watt PEP before as well. Every once in awhile it sure would be nice to swing the beam to the northwest and flip the switch and watch the meters swing to 5000w PEP though.
I'd be very happy psuhing 5000w and knowing i can get out to pretty much anywhere i want to or conditions will allow, but if the signal bleeds all over the bands, my neighbors threaten to shoot me and the trees catch fire, i wont bother to use the amp at all. Thus, i wanted something extremely clean.
Excellent rig + Excellent amp + Excellent antenna + excellent RFI blocking = Hopefully a happy operator.
I figure a nice 3CX5000 tube would "light up" the shack nicely.
And yes, Big toys must have big toys. It keeps me "sane" and keeps me from slapping all the silly people in this world at times. HAHA.
It's a hobby and i enjoy it.
Thanks for the replies. |
Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 6:40 pm: |
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5,000 watts is a lot of power, but it doesn't really get you very much for all the trouble. It's less than 5 S-units more than a 12 watt SSB rig. I get 2 S-units by using a good speech processor and I'm not breaking the 12 watt limit. As an added bonus I'm sure I'm not splattering because the speech processor effectively limits the input so the radio's limiter doesn't need to do any work at all once I've got the output of the processor set properly.
If I were going to spend $4,500 I'd spend $4,000 on the antenna, tower, rotor, grounding system, coax, and all other related items. The remaining $500 I'd spend on a Uniden Grant, 7.8 MHz Channel guard filter, speech processor, microphone, and power supply. |
That ELCO Guy (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:43 pm: |
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@ Racer...
Propogation charastics aside you make a valid point. IF the theory books are right in order to get one extra S unit you have to multiply yur signal by 4 times or so if I remember correctly--allowing for quality of meters and such.
So if you are hitting someone with an S9 with 12 watts, then to get an S10 you need to run 48 watts (4 x 12) and to get an S11 you need 48 x 4 watts. S12 would require 4 x (4 x 48) watts.
Eventually you get to a point where power becomes irrelevant.
Propogation conditions are THE primary factor in distance talking.
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Racer X (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 6:07 pm: |
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That ELCO Guy - While some S-meters aren't calibrated correctly, it's standard theory to gain 1 S-unit there needs to be a 6dB increase in signal which is quadrupling of power. I don't believe the differences in calibration are the fault of the meter movement, I think they are the fault of the circuitry that drives the meter and are related to how the voltage is derived.
BTW - There are no measurements such as S10 or S11. After S9 it's customary to add the dB over S9 that the signal is showing. So for someone who's nearly pegging the scale the reading would be S9 +30dB or 30 dB over S9.
You said "Eventually you get to a point where power becomes irrelevant." I couldn't agree more. In fact, I think power plays a very small factor in communication most of the time. It's more about the antenna, it's position in relation to the surrounding terrain, and the person using the radio. There are only a few situations I can think of in the last decade of playing radio where power has made much of a difference for me and most of them have been on VHF rather than HF.
CB is similar to amateur QRP operation. Folks who choose to go QRP do so because it's more of a challenge to use less power then the other operators. It means that you rely on operating technique and skill rather than wattage. |
Patzerozero
Intermediate Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 358
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:13 am: |
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c'mon guys, sounds like he's being serious here. can he be trusted with 5kw, that's what you should be asking him! gentleman down the street runs 2-4cx15000's at, oh about the 25,000 watt mark, on a bird meter, into his mobile beam, across the water. and, though he may be the strongest around, he can key on everybody only about 90% of the time, when he can't, he goes away real quick. and there are plenty of times when he calls and calls and nobody comes back to him, and he goes away real quick then, too. that's just to say, mister455,-you think 5kw is enough??? go for 10... |
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