| Author |
Message |
    
Ryan
Member
Username: Ryan
Post Number: 66
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 1:13 am: | 
|
hey, i was wondering why so many american AM CB operators put so much focus on a concept called "swing." i hear people who dead key 2 watts and swing 30 and i think to myself "why dont these people just use ssb?" my radio swings maximum 2-3 watts when i talk on AM if any at all. if i get full modulation and none of that evil backswing, im satisfied. someone please explain the benifits to hacking your radio to reach this level of operation |
Rob5mike
Member
Username: Rob5mike
Post Number: 79
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:21 am: |
|
I think most people do the "swing mods" to thier radios to drive amps.I have a Delta Force setup like this and a Texas Ranger 396F with just the basic tune up and use amps on both of them and I can't tell any difference in them.Good question! Maybe some of the Techs will explian it. |
Rattlesnakejake
Member
Username: Rattlesnakejake
Post Number: 95
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:29 am: |
|
if u dont have an amp, its helpful to get a little bit more |
Chillydog
New member
Username: Chillydog
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:34 am: |
|
Ryan,
There is no benefit in running a 2 watt carrier with a 30 watt "swing" (PEP). Regardless of CB folklore, a 2W carrier with a 30W PEP is an overmodulated signal. As with all overmodulated transmissions, it will be distorted and will "splatter" into adjacent channels. Responsible radio operators don't do this.
A properly adjusted AM transmitter will allow a PEP of 4 times the "dead key." For a legal CB in the United States, that means a maximum of 16W PEP when fully modulated from a 4W carrier. This will result in a good sounding, clean transmission. It is possible to get away with slight amounts of overmodulation and still operate reasonably, but a 2W/30W ratio is too much.
You are absolutly right to be satisfied with full modulation and no "backswing".
I expect someone (maybe several someones!) will disagree with my comments. I'll state right now they are wrong. Too many people who don't really understand what they are doing are hacking up radios and transmitting trash. They don't know how to evaluate the effects of their radio abuse. If there is an increase in their cheap meter's reading they are happy. No effort to check harmonics or intermod, quality of audio reproduction, reliability of operation.
I expect those who disagree with me will offer their own opinions. You're welcome to do so, but I won't be responding to your postings. The truth doesn't need defending!
Very best regards to all!
Bob
|
Tech181
Moderator
Username: Tech181
Post Number: 838
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:44 am: |
|
Someone finally tells the truth! Amen Chillydog! |
Ironmask
Junior Member
Username: Ironmask
Post Number: 193
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:58 am: |
|
Chillydog,
I am "No Tech" by any stretch of the imagination, but after 40 years in radio, I could not have said it any better.
I thank you for setting the record straight.
Iron Mask KGS 8024 |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 1618
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:08 pm: |
|
VERY GOOD POST CHILLYDOG 
Very clear and to the point and help's to solve a lot of myth's on swing.
Lon
Tech808
|
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 214
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:48 pm: |
|
Well Mr Lon, look at the new Alpha force by RF limited it has a built in swing modulator that keys a few watts and swings to 40.. Thats a lot of AM swing am i right? A well known radio Manufacturer actually puts a "swing mod" right in the radio at the factory! Hmmmmmmm?? I see nothing at all wrong with swing but i guess some of the guys on here dont like it that well... Oh well to each his own i say!!!! |
Tech808
Moderator
Username: Tech808
Post Number: 1619
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 1:39 pm: |
|
You are 100% correct as the MAGNUM OMEGA FORCE S-45 and the New MAGNUM S-3 both have swing and utilize the TOP GUN MODULATOR BOARD.
The MAJOR difference is that these Radio's were "Designed" to do this with NO AFTERMARKET MODIFICATION's to any circuit or by Adding or Removing anything.
The TOP GUN MODULATOR BOARD was designed by Mr. Bob Fitzpatrick for the Magnum Line of Radio's
Notice the word BOARD.
There is a major difference between a Swing Mod and a complete Modulator Board as the Board was designed to be a part of the radio and work together with the radio.
I am sorry but after reading the above post's I did NOT see any Negative Post's by anyone stating that they did not like swing in a radio.
The only post I made above was:
Very clear and to the point and help's to solve a lot of myth's on swing.
Is there something there that was incorrect?
Lon
Tech808 |
Barracuda
Intermediate Member
Username: Barracuda
Post Number: 189
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 1:32 pm: |
|
CM3885,
Manufacturers are in the business of SELLING radios. They can sell technically superior radios or they can sell radios that have features and capabilities that the market seems to want. In my experience these are not always the same. So, if the folklore is "the more swing the better" and that is the common belief I would expect radio manufacturers to at least advertise if not actually make a radio that performs to that market expectation. Remember, in business, the customer is always right, even when he's wrong.
My opinion freely given and worth every penny paid.
73
Barracuda |
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 215
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 12:29 pm: |
|
Thers nothing wrong with have some swing in your radio. I myself am a pro swing and NPC/RC PPC mod person and have modded quite a few radios for myself and for others and am very pleased with the results and many of the radios are still going strong after the mods!! |
Snowfire
Junior Member
Username: Snowfire
Post Number: 16
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 7:12 pm: |
|
I love swing. the more the merryer. my radio key's 2w and swing's to 30w, look's good on the meter on the radio, key's 1 then bounces of the wall with modulation, everbody say's it is loud and clear, like one of them big radio's. |
Crafter
Advanced Member
Username: Crafter
Post Number: 915
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 8:06 pm: |
|
CM3885 Im a fan of NPC mods too, but I like some carrier I usually run about 5 to 10 watts on AM and let it swing the rest usually around 40 into 4 sweep tubes in a pair of 3-500's. Seems to work good too.
|
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 216
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:57 pm: |
|
"Why dont these people just use SSB?"
Well although i am a HUGE believer of SSB (I love to talk SSB!) most guys i know dont like SSB because of one thing, well 2 things.
#1 The clarifier deal.. If you are even a tiny, tiny, bit of freq those old duffers with the HF rigs will admonish you the second you key up and talk and they will say "you are off freqency" and if you run a radio with the claifirier tied well, you are out of luck.
#2. Most serious SSB operators will -NOT- even -THINK- of tuning to a stranger thats off freqency even a hair to help!!
These two things are the deciding factor against most new SSB users. nine times out of 10 when these 2 factors come into play they abandon SSB forever and stay on AM!! |
Ryan
Member
Username: Ryan
Post Number: 67
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 12:33 am: |
|
why is it on the magnum i got, i key up with like 6 watts and i only swing to about 7 in AM? i dont know where all of you are getting 16 watt swings out of a 4w carrier |
Tech8541
Moderator
Username: Tech8541
Post Number: 99
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 1:02 am: |
|
ryan, you are not using a peak reading meter. i noticed that in your 1st post when you mentioned backward swing. you must be using an rms meter like the bird 43. those are the best for modulation checks. as long as it does not swing backwards, everything is good modulation wise. a dosy/astatic will not show you this. |
Crafter
Advanced Member
Username: Crafter
Post Number: 919
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 1:17 am: |
|
Its easy on a 35 watt radio. Not with a regular Cb's but most will do 12watts with just a basic tune-up. |
Chillydog
New member
Username: Chillydog
Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 11:52 am: |
|
Ryan,
Just to add a little to Tech8541's answer (not that Richard ever needs any help!), a better way to determine your radio's output power and modulation is to use an oscilloscope, rather than a meter.
There are meters that accurately measure RF power, both RMS and peak, but they are expensive and are not the typical meters used by most CB operators. You can _sometimes_ find a non-powered meter that very closely approximates accurate RMS and peak readings, but not often.
I've got an MFJ-870 on my bench right now, that I'm checking for a friend. In both AVG and PEP positions, on the 30W and 300W scales, it correlates to my o'scope within +2%/-5%. That's far more accurate than any other meter I've checked. Typical CB meters are all over the place.
The nice thing about the o'scope is that you can easily see how well you are modulating. Overmodulation is easy to spot, you can tell when you are undermodulating. When I'm working with a friend or customer on my bench, I like to leave the 'scope hooked up while I demonstrate radio operation. I'll show how their meter responds to different conditions, so when they are operating the radio off the bench they'll know exactly how they are doing. (Once you've seen "backward swing" on a 'scope you'll realize how much CB folklore regarding it is bs!)
Maybe you could find a tech or a ham with an oscilloscope willing to spend a half hour or so demonstrating RF and modulation. It'll do a lot for making you one of the CB operators who really understand what they are doing!
Regards,
Bob
|
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 217
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 1:55 pm: |
|
Problem is not every one has an O scope or has the $$$ for a O scope.. Sure if they were cheaper id have one in a second!!! |
Skilletlicker
Intermediate Member
Username: Skilletlicker
Post Number: 130
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 2:49 pm: |
|
i have finally come to the conclosion that swing is not all that important,modulation is what i am aiming for
|
Chillydog
New member
Username: Chillydog
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 8:06 pm: |
|
Cm3885,
You're right about the expense of a 'scope. But nobody should be doing modulation modifications without one. (Don't get me started on spectrum analyzers!)
Sometimes it's worth paying a qualified tech for a bit of bench time, just to understand how well a transmitter is working. Or maybe to become friends with a ham operator with an o'scope. Believe me, a knowledgeable ham friend is invaluable! (Have you ever know a ham to _not_ want to show off his knowledge?)
Regards,
Bob
|
Chillydog
New member
Username: Chillydog
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 8:13 pm: |
|
Skilletlicker,
Not to make it more difficult for you, but actually modulation and swing are the same thing, given the poor use of technical terms in CB operation.
The problem with the concept of swing is that so many people think "some is good so more is better". Add that to the inability of cheap meters to correctly measure the carrier and peak readings of a transmitter and the result is too many hacked up overmodulated radios out there.
But there is no question that you are right; good modulation is exactly what you are aiming for!
You've got a great handle, by the way. Just let that skillet cool off before you lick it!
Regards,
Bob
|
Crafter
Advanced Member
Username: Crafter
Post Number: 924
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 8:29 pm: |
|
My thoughts exactly Skillet Licker. |
Mr_rf
Intermediate Member
Username: Mr_rf
Post Number: 256
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 - 9:32 pm: |
|
It's interesting that even most techs are all wet about what and how "swing" kits work...
Most of the "Swing mods" or "Modulators" I observe on a scope aren't overmodulated at all...they just appear to increase the RF amplitude reference level as modulation increases modulation on a curve equal to the level of modulation being driven. If you generate a constant level tone on a radio with a "swing mod" the carrier stays up and modulated at 100% until the tone goes away!!!
If the modulation limiting circuit isn't modified (the "diode" cut) the modified "swinging" radio usually never overmodulates. It may sound louder due to the way the RF increases as the modulation increases but if you tune up and down the band it usually doeasn't splatter (bleed) any more or less than before being modified...thats the first clue that the radio isn't over-modulating. Radios that over-modulate almost always have the limiter diode
cut! So, why swing???
The only plausable advantage to swing is the reduced stress on the CB's finals and inline amplifiers, plus the ability to push an amp or CB final stage a little harder without increasing heat or average duty cycle as compared to a typical factory aligned CB. Oh, and lets not forget the fact that you're One-Uping the Jones'sss!!! lol
Hope this helps anwser the question.
Mr_RF
P.S. Throw away your wonderful typical CB meterbox that claims to measure AM modulation. The only way to properly measure modulation is with a bench scope and someone who knows how to measure modulation, both positive and negative peaks, regardless of Swing Kits!
FYI...AM broadcast stations have been legally using balanced modulators for years with the positive peaks adjusted for 120% modulation and the negative peaks adjusted for 95% modulation. If you want to achieve truely boosted modulation on an AM signal this is the only way to do it without creating a mound of distortion! :-) |
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 218
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 1:01 am: |
|
Well im not gonna get started again on this modulation this ans that issue but i will say this much.. Modulation -IS- everything! Ive been able to talk local long distance (barefooted mind you) for miles away and the guy on the other end will not hardley even see his needle move but i always get a very pleasing compliment back on the fact that my audio is "up there" and that sometimes is the only way a guy out 70 to 100 miles away local long distance can hear me when i run 100% barefoot!!!!! |
Sparkomatic
Intermediate Member
Username: Sparkomatic
Post Number: 255
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 9:50 am: |
|
My take on swing:
If you want to see peak watts out of an amp you need to feed it swing.
Swing certainly doesn't necessarily mean loud audio.....there are a lot of radios that have mega swing but the audio leaves a lot to be desired.
A buddy has a president Jackson which was probably one of the first export radios and that radio swings to 28 watts and drives his XFORCE XT400 to 1000 watts pep but the audio is as flat as a board. I run an XT400 and drive it with a Cobra 148(15 watts pep) and I get between 850 and 900 watts pep out of it and way less RMS swing.
The audio on the setup with the 148 has CONSIDERABLY more audio but less swing.
Swing isn't everything but looks REAL IMPRESSIVE on the wattmeter. |
Skilletlicker
Intermediate Member
Username: Skilletlicker
Post Number: 131
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 5:10 pm: |
|
i have a swing from 4 to 16 on am barefooted, and the radio is very loud no distortation .and that is good enough for me, i have a mobile and a base so i can check the loudness real well
|
123upmichigan
Member
Username: 123upmichigan
Post Number: 105
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 8:43 am: |
|
i have had plenty of radio's that have benn modded to swing and boom and distort, but my question is when are they gonna start putting amatuer theory into cb's? the absolute loudest radio ever heard up here was an old kenwood with a speech processor on it and when he turned it on... bam went from average to outstanding. would think they would have put stuff like this in c.b.'s already but have not seen it. |
Pp1616
Junior Member
Username: Pp1616
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 10:10 am: |
|
my buddy has a speech processor in his 142 gtl and darn that is nice and loud and so clear it cost some $$ for it but it was worth it let me tell u.. oh hes also CEF member and people say hes loud |
Highlander
Intermediate Member
Username: Highlander
Post Number: 428
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 3:56 pm: |
|
I have heard some CB's with SP1A speech procesors in them and they sounded phenomenal! |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 1651
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 9:10 pm: |
|
I put a cbc speech processor in my eagle 2000 and blew out my preamp and modulator among assosiated parts,geez.Bigbob |
Dindin
New member
Username: Dindin
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 10:01 pm: |
|
So Bigbob,you wouldnt recommend the cbc speech processor?I have been strongly considering it for my washington since I am not satisfied with npc mod on it.going to put it back to original and start over again. |
Mikefromms
Intermediate Member
Username: Mikefromms
Post Number: 108
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 11:24 am: |
|
Some locals have been arguing this very issue the past week. One says two watts with a swing of 15 watts will outtalk the one who deadkeys 15 watts with no swing. They got heated over it the other night. Pretty silly, huh?
mikefromms |
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 231
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 12:07 pm: |
|
LOL. I know one local that dosnt even run an inline meter.. Kinda smart then he cant get all passionated over what his radio does or doesnt do!!! |
Sitm
Junior Member
Username: Sitm
Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 1:06 pm: |
|
I have been considering a speach processor for my shack. Is there a product review on this somewhere in this site??? |
Bulldog369
Junior Member
Username: Bulldog369
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 3:47 pm: |
|
i have the spi processor an i love it.. i am going to be puting one in my mobile next... they make a big difference.. if i have mine off verybody is like "where did ya go" put it on i am loud an proud so they say... |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 1664
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 8:44 pm: |
|
Dindin,the cbc processor came out of my washington and it worked well in it,I even had a 12 pole double throw push button switch on it so I could disengage it on ssb,it is not an ssb processor,just a.m.,I'm afraid the mike pre-amp in the galaxy has just to much gain to utilize the cbc unit,even with the 10 db reduction connection,one thing leave your amc connected with the processor or you will splatter 3 megs,guaranteed.Bigbob |
Tech8541
Moderator
Username: Tech8541
Post Number: 119
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 9:33 pm: |
|
what do i think of speech processors?....i buy the sp1a by the case, not singles. the sp1a works in all modes. all the major manufactures of business band radios are incorporating speech processors/compressors into their radios. why do you think tv and fm commercials are so loud? speech processing is why. |
Crafter
Advanced Member
Username: Crafter
Post Number: 944
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 02, 2004 - 9:38 pm: |
|
I use a sp-1a in my ranger works go for me they can mount in any radio, they have two tuners to get it just right incoming audio gain and compression. |
Sdc1342
New member
Username: Sdc1342
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 12:06 pm: |
|
new to the board! hello all i got a problem with people and there pep false incorrect readings. i keep running into people who use these pep readings and have backwards swing you try to tell them that and they disregard it because everything reads forward on a pep setting. who came up with this pep stuff anyway. average accurate only for me thanx! |
Foxracing
Member
Username: Foxracing
Post Number: 95
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 3:00 pm: |
|
Alright......
Well whatever all of you think none the less how much swing or watts you are pushing. I will tell you that my 2950DX that I had Copper tune up is dead keying 10-12 watts and swinging 25-27 on my DOSY TC 3001P. Is this a very good amount of swing or bad.
FOX
|
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 273
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 1:00 am: |
|
I dont get why everyone on here is anti swing. IMHO if you dont have decent forward swing from the radio you will end up sounding soft and not be able to get out that well.. Me myself all my radios are tuned and peaked for a max forward swing around a 1.4 to a 1.6 ratio peak to carrier. Belive me they are LOUD and i get comments all day long on how great i sound. I like to be able to talk local up to 100 miles away. yeah most of the time i hardley give the other hand a signal on his meter but my audio is what carries me! Ill leave with this note.... To each his own......... |
409
Junior Member
Username: 409
Post Number: 41
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 4:47 am: |
|
Just looks PRETTY on the meter !! |
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 274
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 12:41 pm: |
|
Just looks pretty on the meter??? I dont hardley think so. Swing and audio have a big part in weather you are getting out or not.. Ill say this and ill say no more, ill keep my loud wild swinging radios and talk all over the place and over everyone that tries to key up over me, Thank you very much, and the guys that dont like the swing and audio from their radios keying 4 watts and swinging to 6 can stay mud ducks talking with the stock mikes if they want to.. Free country. To each their own!
Good bye for now and have a great day!!!
Im done with this post. Its useless to go on!!! |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 1774
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:06 pm: |
|
I read an article excerpted from an arrl publication that said as follows "audio processing with a speach-clipper does no good on ssb,a compressor does and a compander is better",now since digital tecnology is commonplace I'm sure there are speach processors out there that will accomplish this in all modes,this article went on to say that "RF clipping is the way to increase the average modulation on ssb" this article was written I believe around 25 years ago,pretty old.Now just everyone calm down,I don't care if your radio dks .5 watts and swings 1000,if on a scope or spectrum anylizer your signal is clean,no splatter,then go talk on it,the secret is modulating the carrier 100%,and a speech processor,usually clips the strong peaks,then amplifies the product which bring the clipped peaks back up to 100% and raises the weak peaks to a higher level,which increases the total volume of audio and makes you louder without overmodulating,the main problem with ssb and this simple circuit is,once the processed audio is passed through the balanced-modulator,the whole thing is inverted it shows peaks to infity and valleys to 0 with little average power in the modulated envelope,but as I said with digital technology techs may have solved this problem,I tried to get a line on a compander board that I could put in my washington years ago,but to no avail,no internet then,now no washington,how about logarithmic processing;125% positive modulation,yeah now they probably do 200%pos.mod.If you have weak modulation and you achieve 100% avg.mod. without going over it could mean an increased loudness of 4 times at a receiving station,now if your signal is pure then use an rf amp to achieve more loudness,but remember,to double your loudness you must double your power,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048 and so on and so forth,it can get pretty pricy.For a 6db increase in your signal at 100 watts 400 would be logical or even 500,that would increase your loudness 4 times,so you run into an empty bank account before you're where you want to go,if you upgrade 100 watts at a time,I submit to the judgement of the house Techs for I do not want to pass along faulty information.Bigbob |
Bigbob
Senior Member
Username: Bigbob
Post Number: 1777
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 8:21 am: |
|
I should read the whole thread before adding my 2 cents not adjusted for inflation,MrRF nailed it,as I always thought the swing mods aren't there to impress peoples egos,they're there to reduce stress on your palomar 250 or sweet 16 as the case may be,but the whole topic of swing has become convoluted rather than do this to make the units more rugged,people have this done so they can say "mine is bigger than yours" while not really knowing they now have a blistering amp driver that can rock their world,as MrRF has stated the carrier has to come up or rise with the addition of the modulation or you will have distortion and bleedover,then when the audio is removed the carrier drops to it's idling level to give ALL the finals a break,I knew this was it all along but just couldn't put it into words. MrRF,Question for you;isn't adding a speech processor to a heavy swinging radio just defeating the purpose of the swing mod?Although you still have the low idle output of the dead key,wouldn't you be increasing the duty cycle by raising the avg.modulation with a speech processor,thus increasing the heat produced? One more thing when the warranty runs out on my dx2517,I am thinking of adding a finned heatsink to the portion of heatsink right behind the finals and attaching a 3" muffin fan to increase reliability,now do you think this a waste of time or does it have some merit,the truth please,take the gloves off so to speak. I was thinking as a 350 with head mods needs more than the stock 2-core radiator to keep cool,my dx2517 with the 307 treatment might do well to have a fan and added heatsinking.Please disregard the last tirade on mar19 it was late and the pain pills were kicking in,Sincerely,Bigbob |
Creator
Member
Username: Creator
Post Number: 62
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 12:11 am: |
|
WOW! Was listening to some NJ folks talking, then this guy says 'my meter is tight, nobody swings my needle', then the other guy goes 'hold on, look at your needle now', then he starts talking and the needle bounces from 0 to
8 S-units on every word. It was quite impressive.
I can see the alure in swing. It was like SSB but crystal clean sound, no tuning. |
409
Junior Member
Username: 409
Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 3:17 am: |
|
Don't see any advantage to having a big swing. If a station is at a long distance, all you hear is the peaks. Kinda hard to copy just the power peaks since you can't put much mod on them.I have heard many such stations that were very weak except on the swing peak. If he was using all of his available power, he would have been readable. Give me a SOLID carrier so i can HEAR the modulation or just go SSB if you want swing. |
Purplehaze
New member
Username: Purplehaze
Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 26, 2004 - 1:08 pm: |
|
The purist crack me up.. Me and a friend of mine have the same meter they preform identical.. His amp is two times the size of mine... I throw and 7-1/2 carrier he throws a 9.. just a dead key.. well he is real big on clicking everyone.. So he says that i must have more carrier than that, because i am getting a 9 on him.. And thier is noway i can click him with a 7-1/2 answer i have modulation he sounds like ••••.. you must swing atlest three times the dead key to sound descent.. i dead key 2-1/2 and swing 18.. no add on mods just the screw driver..But just for the record another friend of mine puts cali on hold when the condtions are right.. guess what his dead key is 1/2 watt into his modulator box.. then his palomar keys up at fifty watts swings 2000. the the palomar keys up a gentron.. so all you purist can say modulation does nothing. And the dumb ole midwestern guys will keep putting the west cost on hold.. and the mods are correct if you dont have a board to handle that much swing you will sound bad.. most of the time.. modulation is what drives amps. no matter how many of wish thier where no modulation |
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 375
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 2:12 am: |
|
I cant agree more Purple haze..... |
Fusebreaker
New member
Username: Fusebreaker
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 3:16 am: |
|
purplehaze wonder where you get that name LOL |
409
Member
Username: 409
Post Number: 53
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 3:52 am: |
|
Still just looks good on the meter......serves no real function. |
Sparkomatic
Intermediate Member
Username: Sparkomatic
Post Number: 296
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 8:25 am: |
|
I don't know about your "you must swing at least 3 times your carrier to sound decent" rule.
If I can key 500 watts and swing to 600 on a Bird 43 then it will be just fine.
"Still looks good on a meter......serves no real function".....Huhhh? |
409
Member
Username: 409
Post Number: 54
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 12:40 am: |
|
If you just swing a couple of "S" units, no big deal. But you guys that want to make the meter act like a "windsheild wiper" sound like ••••. Like i said, it looks good on the meter(receive end), but serves no real function. As for your PEP reading meters, there just for the operators gratification. That PEP power doesn't really do much for you unless your SSB. You might be showing that extra 100 watts swing on your meter, but it's pretty hard to see it on mine. This swing business was hot back in the 60's too and everyone wanted to bias there PA's for a big swing. Didn't do much then and still doesn't !! |
Cm3885
Intermediate Member
Username: Cm3885
Post Number: 402
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 5:04 pm: |
|
swing is ok if you use the 1 to 4 or the 1 to 5 ratio peak to carrier. But IMHO theres nothing wosrse than a radio that dosnt have much swing and sounds soft and undermodulated on the air. Mudducking it is what i call it. Those guys that like to key up 1/2 a watt and swing to 40 or so DO sound bad on the air becaus the receving radio on the other end cant make up for the lack of carrier fom the other radio. As for the PEP meters i like mine and would NEVER own a Bird meter.. just dont care for them in fact i personally know of a CB shop owner that bought a BIRD to replace his aging Black cat meter. He said it was the worse thing he ever did buying the Bird meter. He got sick of hearing everyone bitch, whine, and moan because their radios did this and that on the other meter and didnt swing on the Bird.. He endeed up getting a Dosy to keep on his shop bench to show customers what their radios were doing and kept the Bird out of public sight and kept it for his tech to use back in the back of the shop. He said he would never again buy another bird... LOL!! |
409
Member
Username: 409
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 12:31 am: |
|
I have heard many LOUD stations that hardly showed any forward swing on my meter, still they were loud. Running a max. carrier doesn't mean you won't be loud. |
