| Author |
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Jyd
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 1:06 pm: | 
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i have a friend that runs a 500watt amp and a 3 element beam,i run a maverick 250 and a antron.he wanted to have a key down he said he could outpower me cause he had a beam.so we live 1 mile apart and a guy 12 miles away recorded it for us and i completly wiped him out.he thought he could win cause of the multiplcation of his beam.needless to say,it was like he was never there. |
Galileo
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 4:56 pm: |
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And to what do you attribute this????? That is very interesting, but how can that be unless he has a station problem...Tom Shaw |
jyd
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 6:19 pm: |
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he just thought him haveing a beam,that he thought he could key me out.shows that the multiplcation does not do as much as you think.. 1000watts wins |
bopper
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 9:26 pm: |
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What is the sense of this?? |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 10:07 pm: |
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Im not sure, its a fun game I like to play too. I am the 2nd biggest station out here in phoenix.. Next is a 41 foot laser 500 with amps ranging up to 12k.
I have about 350-400 watts but I have a moonraker 4 at 40 feet. Next are a bunch of antrons and imax's.......
Beam always wins with same power, height and modulation. You understand that the milti factor is only in theroy, its not really true. Just seems that way. Also for a comp its also fair that the antennas are at the same height or else your not in the same leauge.
So height and power play factors.
Or you can play an unknown match where you dont know what the next guy has.
How about
Palomar 300a with imax2000 v.s. Laser 500 with a palomar225 doing 160 watts.
The beam smoked him all up by 3 s-units.
Its a fun game I love to play. |
BIG FOOT
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 9:03 am: |
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...they do that lot here in alaBAMa.. they try to out-do each other by going " bam "..."bam" at each other while one of them is talking....these folks aint got no wrestling to watch on tv, football season has not started yet. The lawn mower is broken and aint got the money to fix it, but the trash can is full and overflowing with BUD lite cans..... all part of the FUN of being a cb radio operator in the good ole U.S.A. !!( having fun with my radios )) BIG FOOT |
chris leggett
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 12:24 pm: |
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Maybe the beam was pointed the wrong way! ;) |
Taz
| | Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2002 - 9:02 pm: |
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Well thats the thing about a beam. You can only guess where to put it if your pointing it at somone. If you have a gps you can drive to these places (local) and mark them in your gps so when you get home you know the exact place to point it. BAM!
hehe |
bullet/151 southern Indiana
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 3:22 am: |
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here's my take on this comparision.
1st ive never seen a D&A maverick do as much as a D&A phantom, witch will do 1000 watts if tubes are good. 600, maybe 700 on a lose meter anymore and its harmonics.(sorry)
heres how it brakes down,i used 1.3swr for both stations and feedline with .8 db loss similar to rg8 coax.
station 1
700watts of power..........1.3 swr
.8db loss ..........2.2 dbi gain
11.9 reflected watts @ xmitter
14.2 reflected watts @ antenna
577 watts at the antenna
124.6 watts lost in coax
563 watts into antenna
935.1 watts ERP
station 2
500watts of power..........1.3swr
.8db line loss ..........8dbi gain
8.5 watts reflected @xmitter
10 watts reflected @ antenna
412.6 watts @antenna
89 watts lost in coax
402 watts into antenna
2539.5 watts ERP
station 1
would need to run 1900watts
to produce 2538.2 watts ERP
station 3
1000watts ...........1.3swr
.4db loss(LMR 600 @ 27mhz) 2.2dbi gain
17watts reflected @ xmitter
18.6 watts reflected @ antenna
908.8 watts @ antenna
92.7 watts lost in coax
890 watts into antenna
1477.4 watts ERP
still less than the beam setup! even using better
cable and twice the rf power.
station 4
1000watts.............1.3swr
.4db loss.............17.4 dbi(SigEng.6 elem beam)
17watts reflected @ xmitter
18.6watts reflected @ antenna
908.8 watts @antenna
92.7watts lost in coax
890 watts into antenna
48,923 watts ERP
beams win...bigger ones can win with less power!
wouldnt that be a nice trend to start.... run bigger antenna's and less rf power. that would be nice on all our rx.
73's bullet |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:54 am: |
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thats how i look at it. beams can win with less power but always with the same power! beams are better! |
jyd
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 10:01 am: |
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its not harmonics.they made 3 maverick 250 amps and i have the biggest.its not a 6 volt tube like the regular one it has 4-12jt6a's driveing 4 24lq6's my swr is 1.0 and it stays like that even when talking.the regular d@a has 6volt tubes and if it is a good amp it will do 600 to 800.mine has better tubes bigger 24 volt.and a good phantom should do 1300 or so.also they maid 2 or 3 diffrent models of that amp to.and for the bigger antennas still would have the same amount of noise on the air as now.i can say eeeeeelllll and it sits on 900.i m not going to argue today i have better things to do.i know what my amp does.d@a made so many amps there not the same just because of the name maverick 250 there are 3 diffrent models of that amp and there is one better than the other 2.mine with the bigger tubes and runs on higher voltage.and when someone says phantom there wer a few difrent of them made to.the phantoms are tube eaters except for one they built was a little better then the others and it out performed the others. |
Einstein
| | Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 11:31 pm: |
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You guys need to brush up on radio theory.
First of all, a beam antenna typically uses horizontal polarization. Antron antennas are vertically mounted and hence transmit a vertically polarized signal.
If the receive antenna 12 miles away is vertically polarized, your buddy's received signal was attenuated by approximately 6 db, a 50% drop in signal strength.
It's not a fair comparison and proves nothing.
To make it fair, your buddy would have to use 2 separate antennas. A vertical and a beam.
He needs to take a signal strength reading of your vertical antenna and then switch to the beam and do the same for the other.
In addition, both beams(transmit & receive)would have to be pointed directly at each other.
Remember, vertical antennas also have a better groundwave pattern than do beams, whereas beam antennas use skywave signals for long distance work.
What's a groundwave and a skywave? Do yourself a favor and study how signals propagate.
What does propagate mean? What does polarization mean? What does vertical mean? What does horizontal mean? (See previous answer. Get off your butts and learn something!)
The best analogy is this: take a water hose with a nozzle and set it on the widest spray pattern. Now shoot the water straight up, overhead. See how wet you get? That's your signal getting soaked up by everyone in the immediate vicinity.
Now set it on the narrowest setting (concentrated spray pattern) and shoot it out towards the horizon. You don't get nearly as wet, but your spray(signal)goes out in a straight line and travels a lot farther.
Knowledge is power so don't waste your time on mindless dumping of testosterone.
What's testosterone? If you need to ask, you'll never have it. |
bopper
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 8:43 am: |
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Quick and to the point, I like that one Einstein |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 9:03 am: |
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In cb beams are usually vertically polarized,just so everybodies equal. |
Jyd
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 9:49 am: |
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both of them wer vertical on there 3 element beams.needless to say.i beat him in several keydowns.well a 3element dont have a chance.we already had several keydowns.and the results was antron and maverick win. |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 11:15 am: |
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uhh einstein we are talking verticle on cb freqs not horiz so most of your post dosent even have anything to do with what we are talking about |
Tech671
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 8:19 pm: |
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*Note*
A 3 element verticle beam in a 12 mi range may not be any more effective than a verticle omni antenna. Do your test again at 50 mis and you'll get spanked. (No offense intended, just the way the antenna bounces) |
Grumpy8220
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 8:27 pm: |
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I have a question, why does someone need 500 watts or 1000 watts to talk 12 miles down the road? Seems to me if you want a real test that you try this with out the amp, just my thoughts! |
bopper
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 8:52 pm: |
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uhh alot of cber's run there beams horizontal alot better then vert |
jyd
| | Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2002 - 9:46 pm: |
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grumpy,i dont need it to talk 12 miles,but i live in miami and everyone runs at least 500watts with a beam.i only use it to talk skip or to squash anoiying truck drivers and cause everyone else runs power.if i didnt i would be a mud duck.there are lots of reasons.671 tonight we will do it again tonight,this time we will shoot to the keys,there is a guy about 60 miles from here we talk to.we will see how bad i get spanked.i think its fun,somthing to do.grumpy just wouldnt understand.some people just ai'nt fun. |
Grumpy8220
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 1:24 am: |
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JYD,
I guess you are correct I do not understand why anyone needs 1000 watts to talk skip.I just got done talking to 006 in Fla. on 26.785, I was only running 50 watts and he had a room full of me. I am not downing you for what you do I just do not see the need for anyone having to run that much power.I just feel it is much more fun to run 50 watts or less and be able to talk were I want, I like the challenge that is all. 73's and thank you for your response! |
bopper
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 8:03 am: |
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Now we know why 11 meters sounds like it does |
jyd
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 9:51 am: |
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i can talk with just my radio,but it is mor fun when you key up while skip is rolling and 2 or 3 people say damn he just took everyone out.there are boys out there that make my 900watts look like nothing.plus i talk distance local40 to 60 miles.it gets rough when i am trying to talk through town to north miami there are lots of radios around here.now if someone gave you a thousand watt box,you would use it. |
minitman762
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 10:57 am: |
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Just another perspective.Turbo tuned Super star 4900 b,imax 2000,1000 foot elevation with imax 88 feet up,One and a half watt dead key,talking to Sandiego Cali from Vancouver Wa.I wont say I never run power but ive been forced into it lately with the demise of the high voltage relay in my phantom.Probably the best thing that ever happened was losing my amp.Good skip = conditions,location,persistence |
Grumpy8220
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 11:49 am: |
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JYD,
I do not want to get in to a shouting match with you, but my answer would be no I would not use a 1000 watt amp. I talk skip every day and see no need to use that kind of power, and as for local distance I talk to folks every day in to Philadelphia that is 45 miles east of me with no problem at all. I have small amp that I never even use, I bought it in a package deal or I would not even have it. Yes I do run a 2990dx but never do I have the need to turn the rf power knob up. I understand were you are coming from when you say everyone around you runs heat, but if they would turn the power down conditions would be much better for everyone. I have been in cb for 30 years and we never even thought about using 500 0r 1000 watts to talk back then, things sure have changed since then. Like I said in my last post I do not down you for what you feel you need to do, I guess that I will never understand the need to do it that is all. A good radio setup, good antenna, and 50 watts or less will go a long way!
I talk on 27.225 am or 26.915 am, yell for me some time I would like to hear your station...
73's and have fun! |
jyd
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 3:11 pm: |
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shows how much bopper knows,there would still be noise on 11 meter if there wer no amps.tuned radios,cliped,conditions,beams,high antennas,power mics.there are alot of factors so when you decide to dog someone make shure you know the whole scoop.brain storm.someone is always trying to wreck someones fun. |
antenna man
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 9:21 pm: |
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*yawn* ...........
All this tech talk is too boring........
Jusg get on your radios and talk and have fun!!!
Isnt that what its all about anyways??? |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Sunday, June 23, 2002 - 11:28 pm: |
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You can talk on the flat side to another on the flat side locally with alot less interference,but talking skip the polarization changes enough it really doesn't matter. |
MonsterMann
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 8:19 am: |
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some folks just don't get it, but minitman said it right.....if you can hear em', you can work em'Power does not equal strength you could have 100,000 watts and still, your not "world wide" like some of these guys i hear....love it! "World Wide"...I hear that **** all the time...what a joke! Conditions must exist....just beacuse you have power doesn't mean everything.
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bullet
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 2:07 pm: |
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einstein...
you shouldnt shoot from the hip as you are not good at it at all and totally missed the target.
if your going to come off as a know it all and down other people on this forum at least know what the topic is about and in the right context"thats is a bare minimum".
jyd,
id keep that maverick as i have never seen one (and ive seen several through out the years)
that could do 700-800 RMS watts. maybe 700 peakwatts on a dosey test center or similar meter.
now a phantom with fresh tubes will do 1kw RMS and alot more peak.
as stated before test them out around 20 miles and watch that beam put ground beween you two.
i know i sure can tell a differance between my beam's and my omni's. even my little 2 element quad smokes my antrons in talking out as close as
5 miles and at 40 there is no comparison.and the same comparison can be made between the 2 and the 6 element quad.
try a barefoot keydown both running the same dead key and see what kind of results you get taking the amps out of the equation.try it within 12 miles and out to say 30 miles. let us know how it comes out
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Wildbill
| | Posted on Monday, June 24, 2002 - 11:02 pm: |
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Plain & Simple It's better to have more than less.
In the sport of competing, the fastest, the quickest, and the biggest are in most cases the front runner. Get the message? |
bopper
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 1:37 am: |
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Spoiling someones fun! Trying to "squash" other peoples conversation is fun? What if some other person had a emergency and a 11 meter was all they had to get help, and lo and behold there's someone out there "squashing" there signal. And yes I know a little bit of what I'm talking about jyd. I have worked as elect/tech for 12yrs for Dow Chem, and servicing 2-ways. You can't tell me if your wiping out everybody on one channel, your not wiping out 2 or 3 above and below it also. Then we can get into harmonics but thats a whole different thread. |
jyd
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 8:35 am: |
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who's comeing off as a know it all?just like when i mention something there is always one to say no way it wont do that.someone mentions they have a linear people put them down for haveing it or it wont do 1000watts.how do you know?mine will swing over 1000,1300 to be exact.i know you have not seen a maverick with the 4-12volt tubes driveing 4 -24volt tubes not like the average maverick. the regular one is 6lq6 which will peak out at 600 to 800.and for the record, i doubt anyone has seen a maverick with 4-12jt6a and 4-24lq6's.until you have dont knock me.try to make a fun conversation and its like war.no fun at all |
Jyd
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 1:03 pm: |
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you still dont get it,thats what we do around here,we goof around and squash each other(on our own channel)and i am not squashing people on other channels damn someone starts talking before they know what they are talking about.we talk on are own frequency.thats what i mean trying to ruen someones fun.i brang up this subject as a fun conversation and people want to but in and mess it up.you dont see tech671 or taz knocking me.i think your jelous that you cant have any fun.second i run 1300 (pep)(swing)850 on a cherockee rms meter.and being that my amp is 6 feet from my tv and it dont even make one line through it,dont come over the telephone either.does not bleed on my neighbors.how is that for harmonics.must be pretty clean.i wernt next door and asked them if i was bleeding on there phone or tv they said (no)say what you want i dont care you dont have any idea what your talking about.fore the last time i better make it clear to bopper.(read this twice so you can understand)it is funny how some will ruine peoples conversation. |
bopper
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 1:09 pm: |
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Jyd I was just addressing the fact that you said."Shows you what bopper knows" And I'm not trying to start a war of words here. I just want to know how wiping out a whole channel that other people that have just as much right to use as you, is fun. |
bopper
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 3:05 pm: |
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I respect Taz, because can explain something without stooping to name calling and talking down to people. |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 3:27 pm: |
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I knew of a guy up here in Mancelona,Mi.who was running a 1000 watt amp on chnls. 22 and 35 you could be in East Jordan 16 miles away and listen barefoot and he sounded like he was right in town on a mobile.His handle was "sledge hammer",he was on telephone lines 1/4 mile from his station,the telephone company brought in fcc.Needless to say he lost everything and was told not to transmit for 10 yrs.He said wet on them and was up and running in 2 weeks,24hrs. later he disappeared from the face of the earth,no trace,no car,no mobile home,no nothing,spooky.You wanna spit in the face of the fcc go ahead you may get away with it for a while,but one day your friends will look for you but you will have disappeared like ol' sledgehammer. |
Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 3:35 pm: |
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ok guys, i respect all of you and i respect everyone till they give me a reason not to! But whatever floats your boat, if you like keying on your friends(fun somtimes) then hey thats your way of fun. If you dont than fine thats your choice.
Take care
Taz |
jyd
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 4:10 pm: |
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i ai'nt going anywhere,and i dont use it all the time.bopper,you still dont get the message i am sending you.i said we talk on our own frequency.what and if people talk down to me i have to take it i don't think so!you have been puting me down from the get go,you have respect for people instead of jumping in when you dont even understand what we are talking about.respect me and i will respect you.the end of the story.bigbob i usually run it on low allthough on high it dont bleed on my phone nore tv or the nieghbor. thats a good thing |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 4:57 pm: |
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Bigbob,
could it be that the FCC got tired of simple fines and have moved into more covert and permanent means of enforcement? Hmmmmm, they might have to start adding more of those warnings to the labels, something like:
Don't operate radio in the shower.
Do not eat the box.
Operation of citizens band radios in conjunction with amplifers could create a shock hazard, excessive exposure to RF energy, or just a plain old violent death at the hands of the FCC enforcement team.
Alsworld |
Bigbob
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 - 6:37 pm: |
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No,I asked around,someone told him ahead of time they were on their way back and he hooked his suburban to his trailer and skeedaddled. |
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