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Kirk
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 12:41 pm: | 
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Ok guys...I'm willing to take the heat from this topic, so at least admire me for that if nothing else. I've been a reader and sometimes poster here on this discussion board. I respect each and ever one of you for your opinions. I just simply would like to encourage everybody who reads this post to be as respectful and kind to everyone you come across....your fellow 2 way operator, your neighbor, etc. My old Elmer in the mid 70's told me that and I still try my best to do that everyday. I have been in radio many years, like a lot of us. I am an Amateur Radio op, like a lot of us. I believe that their should be licensing, unlike a lot of us. Maybe, just maybe, a part of the pie of why CB radio is a little uglier today is that very reason (no license). Do you remember your old callsign(s)?? Some of you guys are alot older than me and have even more vintage memories about first working radio. It has changed, hasn't it?? I still have the same DAK 9 I bought new in the 70's and it looks and works well....and I listen...and sometimes I wonder why it is the way it is? Everybody has an opinion...so lets hear em! Do you think CB radio could get any better than what it is? What do you think we as operators need to do to change it....or does it need to be changed? Just to let you all know, I am PRO FCC. which I'm sure will divide me from others, but again....my choice, my reasons. Mainly because I feel there DOES need to be an organizing body in place. I work in TV...can you imagine if a body such as the FCC didn't exist? Does the FCC have it's problems?? Hell yes it does.....do I agreee with everything they (as a body) Govern and Rule? Hell no!....BUT...what is the alternative??? |
Maxwedge2
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 1:49 pm: |
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Kirk, I got into radio in the mid 70's and at the time, you had to have a license to operate. Yes, I recall my first call sign and still have it displayed next to my rig. CB radio began to go down hill after FCC deregulated it back in the early 80's. Knowing that the FCC would and did crack down and pay you a visit just for the lack of a call sign kept people on their toes and people had a tendency to show more respect towards one another. I still operate on 11 meters but not as much as I did in the early days when things were very much different. All I hear now are people fighting with one another and others engaging into power wars at least here in the San Francisco Bay area. Very few of my friends from the early days are on 27 MHZ these days, some moving on to amateur radio while others have given it up all together. Home computers are partially to blame and it is having it's affects on both amateur and CB radio a like. At one time, some of the neighbor kids would jump at the chance to come into my shack and to talk with someone on the other side of the world but the advent of home computers and the internet has changed all that. No license or tests to take and no antenna's to erect. I often wonder, where will the next generation of amateur radio operators will come from? At one time, many were graduates of citizen band radio but even that seems to be on the wane here locally. |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 1:58 pm: |
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Kirk very good.
You see to understand WHY the FCC is not going away. As bad as they are what else can be done? In the early 1900's radio got out of hand so the goverment started requireing SOME kind of plain to devide up the radio specturm. FIRST thing that happened was HAM radio user were BAND from all frequencys below 200 meters ( about 1.5 MHZ ) Thats right we were vanquished to frquencys SO HIGH that the goverment did not think of them as USEFULL. I have a 1929 radio handbook thats talkes about experimental frequencys ...you know the ones too high to use... they started at 30 MHZ and quazi-light waves at 400 MHZ ! Through the 20's and 30's things tightened up as technolgy grew.
In 1934 after about 20 years the FCC was born and the comunications act of 1934 was passed. Now TODAY is still the basic rules for all FCC law..... like it or not.
Bruce |
Sixkiller505
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 2:56 pm: |
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kirk! funny u should ask i'am 52years young,i wonder just how many people who read this fourm are old enough to remember call signs.my temps were kjw2373 my permanant ones(which i was so proud of)kbdm7102.(yeah guys we use to have pride)my first radio a johnson 123a still sats in my radio room.well!!they took lic# away,and there was and on rush of people who ran to buy radios like bee's to honey,then it happen!!progress gentleman!!like the gold rush of old!!good or bad?there's a lot of opions about that,but there's an old saying "u can't teach old dogs new tricks" well if that's so then we need to teach young pups respect for others,and pride in there self it will overflow on we do business on the air wave |
Dimstar
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 3:33 pm: |
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KQA-7409. I wish it was still an official call. It still taped to my 5 channel Johnson Messenger. |
Alsworld
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 4:11 pm: |
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Kirk,
could be a heated topic but a good debate subject. I've only been in CB radio since 96, then again this past January. Never had a license or callsign but here is my perspective from a 38 year old. Yes...CB could be much better than it is, but the fact (as I see it), when the FCC stopped enforcing the rules already in place, 11 meters turned into the wild west. The snow ball affect has it turning full steam and it's going to be hard to stop.
This is not the FCC's fault, it is the government cutbacks of their agency that has ended up in the "the FCC won't do anything" attitude. Bottom line, they don't have the people or funding to enforce like they used to. When will the snowball stop??? Gosh, it's hard to tell.
We spend billions of dollars a year fighting illegal drugs but they still come into, and are sold throughout the US. The problem is rampant. What kind of funds would it take to clean up 11 meters? I don't know. No, of course I don't mean to compare the BAD CB users to illegal drugs, but it would take a massive amount of funding for the FCC to even begin step A. Bad CB'ers are rarely, if ever, painted across the nightly news and don't have the media coverage of the other to get congressional attention. Maybe that's a good thing
Would have keeping the licensing proccess in place reduced what it has become? That's a debate it itself with no way to come to an answer. What about enforcement? Well in my opinion, if people knew that the FCC was really out enforcing the regs, those that cause hate and discontent, profanity and engage in malicious RF interference just may calm down. It would take much effort but it could work. Would it clear the airwaves of all wrong doing? Never. I don't mean to be negative but look at everything from law enforcement to the officials at sporting events, all there to make sure we abide by the set rules. The FCC is no longer doing that and sometimes it's mayhem.
How can we change it? Tough one, but I think it would be leading by example, trying your best to keep it clean, ignore the idiots instead of biting that hook and arguing over the radio for hours. I'm not saying lay down and put your head in the sand, but the good operators back each other up and continue to keep it cool and professional. Keep it FUN.
Although there is a lot of bad •••• on 11 meters, I still feel there is a whole lot more good operators out there who aren't heard cross country. I'm fortunate in my town that we don't have any real airwave bashers. Sure many here run amplifiers, but to shoot a little (clean) skip and talk many miles to each other. Each night the older folks have their channel, many still on 23 channel radios, updating each other on who is in the hospital, health condition, or the occasional death of a friend. The nights are quiet and each group does their own talking, although any one of us or them can cruise down or up to their channel and say hello and it's friendly. We are all welcome to drop into each others channel and wave a hand. Maybe I wish the world could learn from this peacefulness but I don't know how to teach it.
Was this like it used to be? If so, then does that prove enforcement is the solution? I don't know. Next question, where will it go from here?
Respectfully submitted as only my humble opinion
Alan
Alsworld
799 North West Florida |
Hook948
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 5:23 pm: |
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I still use the last 3 #'s from my old call signLooking back to when you had (suposed to) have a license for CB, Everyone (99%)was very careful how they conducted themselves on the air. There was still alot of ileagal activity,more power,freebanding(myself included)but operations were still much better than today. I think mainly because everyone felt Uncle Charley was right around the corner and could get ya. They still are and still can BUT everyone knows the chances are MUCH slimmer now than then and that there is just not enough manpower to police the way they should so they pretty much just go after the ones causing problems. I disagree with the FCC on alot of issues but I'm not against them at all.If you talk out of band, farther than your supposed to etc. then you know what you are doing and should also know you may have to pay the consequences some day. IMO...They should increase enforcment,go back to licensing (this would help pay for more enforcement), increase the power limit,open up most of 11 meters with a band plan such as 2X.XXX-2X.XXX set aside for AM, and another part for SSB and do away with the limits on how far you can talk. WHEW ! That outta open up a can of worms. Just my pennies worth |
BIG FOOT
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 5:32 pm: |
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... C B radio is still a great form of short - range communication... the riff - raff get all the attention..just like at a college football game ( 35, 000 behaving fans 10 - 15 stir up trouble and make it bad for the rest of those trying to enjoy the game )... licencing will not work how is it to be enforced and what do you do with the violaters ? take their radios away ( go home and grab another one out of the closet ) ??... the good ones are NOT noticed and there are THOUSANDS of them you never hear say a word all day or all night... but should a wreck occur or some disaster, they are on the radio organizing folks, on their call phones reporting the situation to those that can help... on their amateur rigs assisting in what ways they can... CB radio is NOT all bad, it is not all profamity, music playing folks with 10,000 watt stations trying to keep the channels plugged.... if you listen real close, you can still hear the GOOD in folks, telling truck drivers directions to a drop-off, giving decent radio checks besides " it works "....carrying on decent conversations all day and all night long, 7 days a week...hey we all got good in us, it just has to be brought out. Each of us CAN make a difference, and already have and will CONTINUE to in the future. We as americans are very lucky to have a system like citizens Band...some countries would never allow the average citizen to posess a transmitter for information and public opinion....we as americans are very lucky ( and grateful ) for that honor and privilege. GOD bless the U.S.A. BIG FOOT |
Skullman
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 6:59 pm: |
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Bravo Kirk, you've got alot of good points there. CB used to be alot friendlier, but I don't think licensing is the answer, the problem remains with the people. HAM requires testing and extensive knowledge of radio propigation and laws, you know what? There are just as many buttheads on ham as cb if not more, minus the foul language of course. People need to realize that we talk on the radio for a couple of reasons. To make friends, practice communication and electronic skills, and most important HAVE FUN. If we were all a bunch of jerks nobody would have any fun or be interested in keeping radio alive.
Someone put a post on here a while back that said the average radio operator was 56 years old. What happens when those guys die? Radio dies with them. We all need to be a litte nicer and not throw stones to drive people away from radio.
CB doesn't need to be a place for foul narrow-minded jerks who just want to start a fight, I thought that was what internet chat rooms were for.
My 2 cents.
THE DEADMAN HIMSELF |
Galileo
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 7:12 pm: |
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Well I agree without the FCC, just imagine everyone transmitting where ever they wanted..Total caos..People would be transmitting on TV freq's or any other place...I dont think there is alot to be gained by going back to licensing on the Citizen Band tho..I do think that Ham Radio should stay licensed..I even belive that to go past no code tech you should have to learn code, just to make it something to work for..Im sure alot of people will disagree, but thats ok, we all have our own opinion, and I can respect that...Tom Shaw |
Galileo
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 7:15 pm: |
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By the way forgot to mention, I was a Cb'er in the 70's (KFW4568) I cant see that it is alot worse now than it was then, besides being more crowded..We had rude, cussing people back then too. Not to mention the constant power wars..People "pining" other people coax..Oh yeah the good ole days...Man, now that I think of it, its better now than when I was a kid, at least in my area...73's......Tom Shaw |
Grumpy8220
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 8:13 pm: |
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I live in SouthEast Pennsylvania, not to far from Tech 181. In this part of the country CB Radio is much like it was in the 70's only with fewer CB operators to talk with. Most of the folks still have respect for one another and most get along, no big power wars and we all help one another. I will agree that maybe the FCC should have kept with the license but I don't think that it would stop some from doing some of the things that they do. I for one still have my old license and will alway's remember the good old day's. TO bad that we have some that feel they need to run a 1000 watts of power to talk 5 miles down the road and crank their mics up so high that all you here is a bunch of ••••! Some people will never grow up and have respect for someone else, but this is how the world is changing and at this point I don't think a license for 11 meters would mean anything! Have a good day ...
KBT 1806 |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2002 - 10:36 pm: |
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the LAST cb call i had was KALK-1860 sometime in the 70's and the ARRL as of 2001 stated the AVERAGE age for a ham is 52 it will be 72 in 20 years unless someway to bring in more taz's if found Now i BELEVE that cb will never see the reutrn of licenses unless the FCC gets a FEE for them |
Funtimebob
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 1:39 am: |
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KNU-1507 |
sandbagger # 106
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 9:21 am: |
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KOG 4366 |
Dawg
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 11:12 am: |
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KCW 4483 |
Diggerodell
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 12:12 pm: |
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KKQ 8960 |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 1:03 pm: |
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KIX-6506 here, funny how you never forget those, kinda like your SS number. CB is still pretty clean and enjoyable where I live. When the skip is rolling its another world, that's when you hear the people that can't say two words without the 'F' word, and the bad sounding overmodulation stations, with 9 roger beeps or some other aggrivation. That's why I hate skip so bad, and would hate to live where those people are. The way I remember the license thing, the FCC was charging a small amount when I first got one, then when CB really took off in the mid 1970s, they jumped the price up several times the orginial price. Then the government told them they were not in the business to make money, since they were already on the gov. payroll. They had to make refunds, and then decided to drop the license requirement. |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 2:24 pm: |
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Ive said it before and ill say it again the FCC was STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, to drop the licensing of CB radio. Biggest and dumbest mistake they ever made. Even if i dont really care much about the FCC myself I DO agree that they need to clean upo the band more than they have. But thats all a pipe dream nowadays..... |
Bulldog
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 4:14 pm: |
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klv-8298 |
melakadude
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 10:32 pm: |
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O please!!! Here we go again!!!! Why does everyone "think" that a license will cure all???
All a license do is allow the Federal goverment one more foot in your personel front door!!! To talk on the radio all you need is a radio an antenna and the common sencw to use it!!! If you dont have the common sence that it takes you will not last long. A license is not a cure all!!!
I hope that you all see why the requirement for a license for CB was dropped, can you say unenforcable????
If you need any more info on this matter please feel free to ask me. |
Jose22
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 05, 2002 - 10:47 pm: |
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KBH-0472
The Blue Knight---Kings Best Helper 0472 |
USA194
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 1:21 am: |
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KBN-2650 |
ChillyDog
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 10:24 am: |
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Interesting and relevant topic!
I bought my first CB in 1964, a single channel Tandy base with a "droopy drawers" antenna. It was fun, and for the most part, the operators I spoke with were polite, disciplined, and conversational.
I had crystals for channels 6 and 14. Within a month a neighbor showed me that swapping transmit and receive crystals gave a "private channel". It may have been my conservative nature, but I didn't feel comfortable operating off-frequency, so I didn't.
My neighbor shouldn't have either; it wasn't long after that he had his station confiscated. It turns out that the 450KHz offset from CB bands landed his transmitter into a military frequency in active use nearby; the Washington D.C., Arlington VA area had a great amount of serious military activity in 1964!
Still, operators did reasonably well throughout the 60s. There were rumors of CBs being used by "agitators" (e.g., the infamous "Granny Goose") communicating during the racial/war-protest riots of the later part of the decade, but I never heard them. There was the occasional off-color comment or inappropriate word.
As far as I recall, it wasn't until the early 70s that CB really started to degrade. This was still during the time licensing was required. Believe it or not, I think the reason for poor behavior was because of increased use of transistorized transceivers.
Transistors simplified operation of radios, and were less expensive. Additionally, they were much easier to use mobile. In other words, radios became more idiot proof, so more idiots used them.
What really seemed to aggravate the situation was the gas shortage crisises in the early to mid 70s. Truck drivers (who always seemed to be part of the CB culture) started using radios to communicate fuel prices and availability, and "four wheelers" picked up on the trend.
About then was when most people just started ignoring the licensing requirements. The license application form was usually included in the paperwork packed with a new radio. (They used to include schematics, too!) Too many people just ignored the license app. It got to the point that many more people were operating without licenses. I think that is why the FCC ended the requirements for licenses; it was becoming an impossible task for them to keep up with the unlicensed rabble.
The next factor in the situation was development of transistorized linear (and not-so-linear) amps. Again, they were cheaper and easier to use than tube amps, so more idiots used them! This was the start the ever-increasing bull crap justification for power: there's an a** across town who is too loud, so I've got to be louder (a bigger a**?) than him.
It's been going downhill at an exponential rate ever since. Over the past twenty years CB has become, for the most part, a sewer. There are isolated areas where a nice conversation with a friend is possible, but those times and places are few and far between.
I don't have an answer to the problem. I can only control my own behavior. I try to maintain the same radio discpline I first learned many years ago, and I try not to respond to the morons who disrupt other's communications. Sorry to say I don't always succeed. When I find myself too caught up in the BS, I turn off my radio and find something else to do. It is, after all, just a hobby!
Best Regards to all!
Bob
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Kirk
| | Posted on Thursday, June 06, 2002 - 12:20 pm: |
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Thanks for all the comments so far. Let me just clarify my personal thoughts that were not quite clear in my original post. I agree, like most, that the FCC made a bad move when they pulled the requirement for license on CB. I DO NOT advocate that it be re-instated.....someone made the comment earlier about the "close the barn door after the horse walks out"....very, very true. I agree that IF it were re-instated, it would be almost pointless. I think, back then, that folks who had licenses felt they were a special part of something. Like, have you ever heard of a "free-concert?" Or a "free-meal?" The first thing we ask is "what's the catch?" My point here is, if we had to apply for a license and make ourselves ACCOUNTABLE for our actions, we'd more than likely behave. And I think that is what the feeling was back then. The FCC knew where you lived ya know. So to sum up my feeling here, most everyone has really given the answer I was looking for. That there are people in CB that still hold to "good, clean communications." In Ham radio, there are bad apples for sure. I know I've encountered them. As many as CB? That's debateable from what I have heard personally, but none the less, my opinion. I think the bottom line here is, we need to "self-police" the band, respect one another and respect the boundry set-up by law (e.g power output/frequency privledges- which means no "out-banding.)" That's illegal folks and those who do it, know that it is. And that, in my opinion, is the start of a bad apple.--73 |
Wa025
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 2:26 pm: |
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KLC 0673
73's BT025 Ron |
Sixkiller505
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 3:50 pm: |
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hello again mr. kirk!! i enjoyed this discussion very much.i did'nt know so many pepole on this fourm was as old or older than i.that explains why we get alone so well here ,as apose to other foums i've seen.as each operator presented his call letters,could't u for a brief moment feel the pride they had of remebering them,and being apart of that era?? that's what's missing now!!it's to far gone now for licensing to do anything,unless 11meters were controled the same way ham is.and we know that's not about to happen.so we have to control our self.i don't know how it was in your town, but in mind we knew the head agent(fcc)in my town.why!!!because whenever the airwaves got crazy he would break in and say:this is j.j.freeman fcc 1000 we are monitoring this channel.he was so loud and clear it struck fear(OR RESPECT call it what u want)the channel got quiet!!and if anybody did talk it was within the law.when he retired the funding stopped.and they moved the office.then the childen came out to play.now they have grown up into what we have today.73's |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 10:37 pm: |
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Now this guy is a good example of someone who gives freebanding a bad name
==>NEW TRIAL DATE SET IN FLORIDA INTERFERENCE, UNLICENSED OPERATION CASE
June 10, has been set as the newest federal trial date in the case of a Florida man arrested two years ago for interfering with Amateur Radio
operations and for transmitting without a license. William Flippo, of Jupiter, faces four counts of operating without a license and four counts of deliberate and malicious interference to a licensed service.
Whether the trial actually will commence remains in question, however. The case was to have gone to trial more than a year ago but was twice
postponed after Flippo argued successfully that serious health problems would prevent him from participating. According to a source familiar with
the case, Flippo failed to persuade a US magistrate this week that he was incapable of standing trial, and the trial date was set.
Flippo, 59, was taken into custody by federal authorities in July 2000. He remains free on bond. As a condition of his release, Flippo has been prohibited from making any radio transmissions and from contacting any
witnesses in the case. Criminal charges going to trial this month cover violations allegedly committed between June 1999 and April of 2000. Each
count carries a maximum penalty of one year in prison and a $10,000 fine. The case will be heard in US District Court in West Palm Beach.
Flippo already faces a $20,000 fine levied in 1999 for unlicensed operation, willful and malicious interference to Amateur Radio
communications, and failure to let the FCC inspect his radio equipment. In January 2000, the FCC gave Flippo 30 days to pay and referred the matter
to the US Attorney after he failed to do so and the interference complaints continued.
A year ago in state court, Flippo was found guilty of criminal mischief in a case related to his radio activities. Palm Beach County Judge Charles Burton sentenced Flippo--known in CB circles as "Rabbit Ears"--to one year's probation and ordered him to dispose of any radio equipment in his possession. That case stemmed from a charge that Flippo had rammed his vehicle into the car of a local amateur who was assisting an FCC agent in tracking down the malicious interference attributed to Flippo.
Personnel from the FCC's Tampa District Office followed up on complaints from amateurs that Flippo had regularly interfered with amateur
operations, especially on 10 and 2 meters. Commission personnel visited the Jupiter area at least twice in 1999, and the FCC reports it was able to track offending signals to Flippo's residence. |
Kirk
| | Posted on Friday, June 07, 2002 - 11:46 pm: |
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oh most definte sixkiller505!....i remember actually hearing the news on August 16 1976 or 77?? that Elvis was found dead.....heard it on channel 1 CB! By the way, my call was KACD-2261 and KBSY-6462...I let 2261 lapse, tehn re-applied and got 6462. Hey...I would like to talk to any folk here in Mid-Michigan CB or Ham on any frequency. Anybody on 20 or 80 meter Ham in the early am? If not, I'll wait till ya'll get your license. Anybody that needs help, I WILL ELMER! Ok??....I'm very serious here guys! Don't let the misnomer of "ham is tough" or "everybodys an A**hole on ham radio get in the way." I remember looking thru an AES catalog 12 years ago thinking "ok...I have no Elmer...nobody to help me....I'll never understand all this stuff...I'll never like it." 12 Years later I'm a very proud Extra who passed 20WPM code in 1996! If I can do it, you can! You only have to want to! And I'm speaking to anyone who wants to hear. I will always help my fellow CB'ers if I can!
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