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BT
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 2:12 am: | 
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Hello all! This board is WAY cool. I have decided to step up to a bigger amplifier and I was wondering what some of you would recommend for a big talker. Right now I have a Varmint xl-450. I want to get into something around the 1KW range. D&A, MaCo, Varmint, Footwarmer, etc. Can anyone distinguish between these for me? thanks in advance!
Brian |
Warlock
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 11:15 am: |
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Why don't you skip all the sweep tube amps and go with a pair of 4cx250's in a Tenn. Walker or a pair of 3-500's in a Henry, Drake, Heath, Amp Supply, Ameritron, Kenwood, etc....
The 4cx amp only requires 2w carrier or less and 15w peak or less. The 300z's require 100w drive or so. |
jyd
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 1:24 pm: |
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klv-1000 |
BT
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 4:01 pm: |
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...way over my head...soryy. I just like the old tube amps and thought maybe some of ya could recommend a good one around 1KW. |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 5:40 pm: |
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BT, take it from an oldtimer and save your money, or maybe buy a spare set of tubes for your varmint. The Varmints with super mod are the loudest amps built anyway, in my opinion. With the 400 you are probably talking 400+ watts, to tell much difference your gonna have to get something that will do well over 1000 watts. And that might raise the meter out on the other end 1 s-unit. In fact if a meter is calibrated right, it takes 4 times the power to raise it one s-unit. Consider if its worth it, the expense, the extra noise, i've owned lots of those big amps, two of the John Boys, terrible noise and vibration with those big old squirrel cage fans stuck on the side. Also the extra current required, an amp that does much over 500 watts needs special wiring, they really need to be on 240 volts. The ham amps like the Henry and Ameritron are quiter and build well, but they put out a lot of heat, ok for the winter time, plus you gotta drive them with another amp, which creates more problems. And we haven't even started talking about getting along with the neighbors, your probably not having any problems now. The first 100 watts or so is what makes the big difference anyway, after that its just watching the meter swing, unless you want to 'superbowl' if so get ready to spend some big bucks. Just something to think about from someone thats tried a bunch of'em. |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 7:25 pm: |
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25 watts
100 watts
400 watts
1600 watts
6500 watts
26,000 watts
Those are the wattage jumps. If you cant make the next jump then why waste your money? |
BT
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 7:32 pm: |
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Thats pretty good advice. I appreciate it. As for the neighbors I don't have many probs. My Penetrator is on a 40 ft. tower with a 15 ft. mast. What do you recommend I drive that amp at for maximum swing? There is a guy in town here that cracks me up!! - when he is keyed up I love to watch my Cobra 2000 meter - he keys (hits me) at 3 and swings clear into the red!! I have never seen that before - funny to watch that needle pop so hard!! He says he is running a Footwarmer - dead keying less than a watt and swinging 750?? Any tips on my Varmint would be great, thanx!! By the way I rarely use that amp -only when I have company over to show off- ya know..but I still don't think I have it doing its best yet.
BT |
Warlock
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 8:24 pm: |
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A two tube (4cx250r) Tenn Walker will cruise at 1400w, operates just like your Varmint, only requires the drive I listed above.
The KLV1000 with built in driver may do 800-1k for much less $, but keep the drive low as well for longevity. |
409
| | Posted on Saturday, May 04, 2002 - 11:50 pm: |
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If big swing is what you want.....go to a modulator. That's what they do.....swing !! Especially if you drive a large amp with one. |
Taz
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 12:20 am: |
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750 watts of swing from nothing is alot of swing. Talk about modulation. |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 10:32 am: |
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BT, one question, does the guy sound good with that big swing, that's the most important to me anyway, is to have a good sounding station. I hear and see a bunch of stations like that, hell of a swing, but bad sound, you get the same 'rush' of sound as swing on the meter, sounds kinda like sideband that you can't completely tune. To get that swing with your amp, it starts with the radio, I would guess he is running one of the dual final exports, with a 'supermod' tune. Your cobra 2000 will never show that much swing. However it can be improved greatly, a veriable power on the outside of the radio will help, then tuning the radio for max swing with a low key, like one watt. Your Varmint will work best with not over 3 watts in, I run 2 watts into mine. For best swing, tune the varmint on high power to max, then with a 'ahhhhh', roll the load to the right until max swing is reached. Next, switch to 'supermod' on the amp, your keyup will drop quite a bit, but it should swing more than the peak you got on high, plus it will sound good and run cool. You've got a classic in that 450 Varmint, take care of it. scrapiron |
Scrapiron63
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 10:49 am: |
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Warlock, I know there is difference in meters and antennas, and I guess you are talking about 1400 watts swing. I have owned a 1 tube and 2 tube john boy, guess I still own the 2 tube in a way, a friend has it, and still owes most of it. ha. I believe the 4CX250 tube is rated at 250 watts, of course they will do more, and swing lots more. The one I have/had, on my meter and beam would load up 500-600 watts and swing around a 1000 when de-tuned a little. A have a friend that gets the big wattage otta his two-tuber, however, he runs an antron, with low grade coax. With that setup, the power comes back down the outside of the coax, into the meter, and gives those high readings. The same amp shows 30-40% less on my setup. Yeah, I know, meters are just a reference, and you couldn't give me one of the non-swinging type, not for my use anyway. scrapiron |
Warlock
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 9:04 pm: |
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I've also seen 1k out of a 1 tuber on some meters. I'm aware of the rms rating of the tube with minimal drive, didn't know we were talking bird watts. No biggie....if the guy wants 1kw bird, maybe I need to edit my recommendation. |
bullet/151 southern Indiana
| | Posted on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 11:14 pm: |
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not all s-meters are set up the same at all, no matter the calibration of them.
some are set up for every 3 db=1 more s unit
some set up for every 6db=1 more s unit
and others are combinations 3db=1 s unit up to
s 6-9 and then every 6db =1 s unit.
if you dubble your power it will show either in the ear or on the meter!
BT warlock is giving you some good advise. i wish when i started off there were forums like this with knowlageable folks to steer ya in the best direction.
sweep tube amps were nice in the 60-80's when the tubes were cheap. now they cost as much or more than some transmit tubes that will flat out kick there ass and out live them by 3-4 times.
and sound much better doing it.sweep tubes were made for tv sets not linear amplifiers service and are fragil as compared to transmit tubes witch were made for amplifier service and are built to last.
it's your money but i always like to spend mine wise as i can. some times its better to spend a little more for quality equipment than buy old junk you'll be tubing alot and having it worked on or replaced. just my opinion! |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 12:01 am: |
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Bird meters are ok if you are a tech but for my use i wouldnt give you a dollar for a donut for one!! Ill keep my dosy. LOL |
Don123
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 3:42 am: |
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Hi BT:
I have to agree with TAZ....you will see very little gain in what you want to do vs the splatter and RF you will put out. I think it will not be worth the money spent. I have seen many times a person with a GOOD gain antenna system out talk a person with much higher power...so put your money in your antenna system if possbile and you will not only put out a better signal put also increase the receive so you can hear more stations! Most any small beam antenna will be a big help if you don't have room for a large beam (small.. maco 3 element, PDL2, Comet, Vquad etc.....large beam Shooting Star, Moonraker4, LAZER, Maco 5 to 8 ele etc.). Remember that 3db more gain is about what you will be doing and even a small beam will give you that. Not sure what antenna you have now but I would say always improve the antenna system first!! 73 Don123 |
BT
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 2:51 pm: |
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Ok guys - great help - I have thought many times about going to a beam - but I don't know how long I will be in this house...doesn't it take a lot of work to put these up? I already have the 40 ft. tower in place. Also, wwhen the big storms hit, my Penetrator is all over the place - I'm trying to imagine a Moonraker or PDL 2 up there in high winds...any one have experience with this?? |
Galileo
| | Posted on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 9:32 pm: |
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What is a 4-1000A rated at?????? Just wondering... |
409
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 5:07 am: |
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Depending on what class you run....it can be from 1390 to 3000 watts. 1390 being phone service. 3000 being AB2 |
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