| Author |
Message |
    
Chris
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 7:21 pm: | 
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I came here for advice on what to do about a cb'er in the neighborhood. I believe I know which house its coming from. He lives over a block away and comes over everything with a speaker in it. We are all tired of hearing this idiot echo through our homes all day. I've heard peoples tv that live closer and he sounds louder than the tv with volume turned way up. He uses a 650 watt amp to talk with his buddy down the road. Someone...ahem has a little walkie talkie and has been giving him well deserved payback. This is one of the most annoying people I have ever heard on the radio and shutting the cb off doesnt work because he comes through everything on the block. what else can be done? I can't even describe how annoying this person is. |
Taz
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 9:08 pm: |
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Fight fire with fire! |
bruce
| | Posted on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 9:23 pm: |
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short of a necktie party not much and dont bet on the FCC..... unless he ticks someone off.... now try this get hold of the arrl at WWW.ARRL.ORG ask if they can offer you any advice or fcc contacts e-mail .... as a last resort see if your local goverment has a electronic nusance ord. some towns do and under a new federal law THEY can shut him down as for the handi talkie .... gee to bad the transmitt lever got stuck while you were working on it on that exretnal power supply.... ahem... |
ChillyDog
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 10:26 am: |
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Chris,
Maybe it would help to educate this person about the problems he is causing. Has anyone tried talking (nicely) to him?
Most people take pride in running a good station; if he knew that he is not only wasting power by splattering across the frequency spectrum but disrupting the neighborhood he might decide to work on improving his station.
If you could offer him some suggestions about grounding, using a low-pass filter, not overdriving his amp, correcting faulty mods, etc., it could be more effective than starting a pissing match.
All that said, if he does correct the problems with his station it is still possible that he will continue come over electronic devices in the area. If he is operating legally and still can be received on computer speakers and TVs, those units are the problem.
Good Luck!
Bob |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 1:27 pm: |
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chillydog is right but some people only take pride is causing problems. This morning on ch22 was a "man" most real men have a brain ... he was spread out over 18 channles with only about -6db per channel. I asked him if he could hold it down and ofcourse was meet with "I got a big f..... radio and im going to squish you!" well you know the rest unfortanly for him all of us except harry are hams and harry can hear us on 10 meters. We now know within 2 blocks where he is... same old problem the fcc dont care... but like cris said he could meet up with a jamed mike switch.... drat! You wonder what is his goal? if it is to impress me or the others nope didn't work. Cris good luck youll need it |
Chris
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 5:38 pm: |
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This person knows he comes over everything on the block because he talks to his other buddies down the road. We have a security cam by our front door and it has a little speaker on it. We can hear him come through that before we even walk in the door. I have thought about sending an anonymous typed letter to him explaining how he is ticking everyone off in the neighborhood. I dont even want him to know who I am or what my voice sounds like. He thinks he's a real tough guy because he has a lot of power and brags on the air how he did lots of butt kickin in his day. it hasnt been so bad the last few days, maybe he turned it down? thank you for the suggestions guys! |
ROCK
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 7:30 pm: |
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Ever try knocking on his door and just telling him that he is messing up you tv? ect. ect. I would try talking to the person directly first. then if that dont work ask others in the area that are having the same problem with him to go to his door(together) and talk that way.how can anyone say no to a mob right. Assuming that there are that many people. |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 7:40 pm: |
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Cut his coax or pin it when he isnt around! LOl! Nawww!! DO NOT DO THAT! It was a joke. There are things you can now do becasue the local cops now can enforce some of th rules i think. |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 8:14 pm: |
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2990 that is correct if the local gov has a ord making electronic interferance a nuceance then the NEW federal FCC " local control " rule can be applyed check with the ARRL they will send you coppy of the bill it DOES APPLY TO ILLEGUAL CB USERS YES IT DOES ! |
Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 11:10 pm: |
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become his buddy and then tell him to stop! |
radiodude
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 6:43 am: |
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Get up a petition and get all your nieghbors to sign it and then ask the local police to escort you and serve it on him |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 6:59 am: |
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HI HI HI GOOD ONE TAZ !!!!! |
Taz
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 9:03 am: |
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well thats what i did! |
Colt
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 3:27 pm: |
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Git a big ol' linn-ear amPLIFFYer and a big ol' bodacious 'didio an' git on channel with eem an' JAR DOWN ON THE OL' D-104 ON TOP OF EEM an' tell eem iffen 'e don't knock it off, you ain'ta gonna let eem TALK!!
That's how muh best frien' Marcel Ledbetter did it! If that don't work, git yersef a talkin' chain saw!!
(All kiddin' aside, Rock's idea sounds pretty good!) |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 7:12 pm: |
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Just do it legal like and get that petition signed by as many affected people that you know of and then go before the town concil and the local fuzz then let them deal with it. Hopefully you guys will ge them involved and get the ball rolling and get the situation resolved!!!! Good Luck!! We had a similar siutaion near were i live and the local cops got involved and the guy that was causing the ruckus over the air got nailed and now is doing time not for "illegal CB use" ( Hi HI Bruce!) but causing a public nusance! He was harassing and threateing people over the air and just being an A$$hole with an attitude and got it!! From what i heard he put up quite a fight with the cops and they had to call in help to get him!!! |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 9:07 pm: |
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2990 there is a law allowing local gov to inforce nusance laws involving radio or your friend would have walked since only the fcc can regulate radio. |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 7:57 pm: |
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Well the guy deserved what he got.. I knew the guy and i can vouch that he was an on air nusance.. Ill admit i dont like the FCC but theres a time and place for them and theres a time and place for the local feds in problems such as what i knew happened.. Needless to say the guy is still in the pen for what he did (well for what he tried to do to those cops!!! A so called foot pursuit!) but thats his problem. |
Harpoonman
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 10:50 am: |
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RCI2990 wrote:
"Just do it legal like and get that petition signed by as many affected people that you know of and then go before the town concil and the local fuzz then let them deal with it. "
FUZZ. Now, THERE'S a word I haven't heard in a LOOONG time!
73
Harpoonman |
FED-UP
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 6:48 pm: |
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This is annoying for sure This is a must read. I'm canceling my credit card so that new site can't screw me again like he did at the eei site |
Taz
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 7:32 pm: |
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Hey harpoonman, havent seen any posts from you lately! |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 9:12 pm: |
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.......and how long ago was that!!??!! LOL. |
Taz
| | Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2002 - 10:46 pm: |
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quite a while |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 4:08 pm: |
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I guess.. LOL! |
Chris Leggett
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 6:58 pm: |
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After You go the legal route and still have the problem.....Find a cheap walkitalki or 2 at someones garage sale.Turn it to the channel he uses and "plant" it near his house with the mike taped down.Being so close he won't be able to hear anyone.Change the battery's when they go dead.
Or put a magnet mount on your washing machine hooked to a cb,tape the mike down.This will also ruin his recieve.It shouldn't bother your stuff since your not running a dirty amp.
Also those tree pruners with the loooong handles(the ones that you pull a rope to cut)are great for cutting coax,works really good if you cut it while he's talking. |
mister_b
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 7:19 pm: |
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Chris, If none of the above works, then sue him and take him to Judge Judy! LOL Type him a letter explaining the situation. If he's unwilling to cooperate then call the police. If the police don't resolve the matter then email me! |
mistah_b
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 7:24 pm: |
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Or even better, get the cop from the "I Was Framed" post. It's here under Open Forum |
Taz
| | Posted on Friday, March 15, 2002 - 9:42 pm: |
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haha, put a motor on that walkie talkie and let it fly through the 40ch in like 4-5 seconds.
that gets annoying |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2002 - 8:06 am: |
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The local cops should take care of the situation if it gets bad or more than one person complains.. They have to now.. its now a responsibility even if some local departments try to ignore it and look the other way it is their responsibility to take care of the problem!!!
Good luck!! |
ROCK
| | Posted on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 2:07 am: |
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Okay read my previous post above, do that first. Then call your phone company and cable ask them to install RF filters also.(they do this free) The reason I said what I did in my first post is maybe the guy don't know he is messing up all that. I know from my past experience that could be the case. I messed up my neighbors TV and they told me so I told them about the RF filter and to call, I also bought them a filter for their TV and phone. I did that because I had no idea that I was messing them up. (my radio never messed my stuff up) You see in the mid 70's the phone and TV companies stopped putting the added filtering in (and never told the public or lowered the prices) The dumbest thing people can do is go and cry to big brother. In most cases it will only cause more problems, and the more people go crying the more laws we get and before you know it you cant even fart outside without someone calling a cop. good luck |
RCI2990
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 12:56 pm: |
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I once got a filter from rat shack and of course it didnt work at all. Are the filters that the cable companys use better by any means? |
Chris
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 3:08 pm: |
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well I got lucky. a person was going around the neighborhood with a petition. I guess they complained to him about messing up their tv and phones and this cb'er and his buddies followed around his wife harassing her. I heard there was a police visit but im not sure everything that happened. I know I haven't heard him all weekened so thats a good thing. |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 3:49 pm: |
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2990 it would be interesting to disect that rad shack filter and see if there is anything in there but 1 choke 1 cap the old drake tv-300 hp had a dozen parts cut off like crazy below 50 mhz down like 40 db or better at cb. the rule is if your comming through a phone its the owners problem but being nice never hurts rocks right and talking to the phone people again is a good idea. There is a company in QST running adds for phone interferance filters drop me a e-mail if you want the address also check the fcc web site just incase there is some information on the manufactures being required to provide them
bruce radio-doctor@juno.com |
Taz
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 7:55 pm: |
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i have tried the rat shack filters and they dont work. The ones the cable companys use are somwhat better. |
Forummaster
| | Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 11:46 pm: |
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I don't know a much about filters but here are some choices.
E01-05002 Low Pass Filter $19.99
A65-00072 Solarcon LP99 Low Pass TVI Filter $49.99
P03-05328 10,000 Watt Noise Filter $169.99 |
bruce
| | Posted on Monday, March 25, 2002 - 6:20 pm: |
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Forummaster
both seem to be fine filters however they are low pass good for his radio What he needs is a high pass like the old drake tv-300-hp what he is fighting is OVERLOAD simply the tv set cannot handle that much RF and all channles are lost since the set cannot opperate with its frount end shut down. The cable people should have filters to prevent cb signals from getting into the set and the phone company has filters to take care of the phone. A good high pass filter will be down 30-50 DB at cb but to do this it takes many stages of L-C filters not just some L pad in a rad shack one i know copper would sell very few of these since with so many people on cable the problem is not what it use to be
bruce |
Cuddlebear
| | Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2002 - 6:04 pm: |
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Ok,
Now for my 2 cents worth. Although I can understand the TVI problem very well. I must also say (And I'm not saying anything about Chris as this complaint is legit) That I had a severe problem with a person in my hometown about a block away. Some of us Cb'ers lovingly call the
A-99 the "Splattertron-99" Cause hell, let's face it, That's what it is. This guy bitched and screamed no matter what I did. I bought a Filter from Copper, He bitched. I even jumped on the radio and offered to buy this guy a filter for his TV or whatever he wanted. I offered to do everything for free. He said "F-you you aint touching nothing you piece of Sh** cb'er!" So I said screw it when he threatened to go to the FCC. I figure this way. I made every attempt to comply and help this guy. He turned it down. His problem not mine. Sometimes these ppl just like to make grief for the Cb'er. No matter what you do. I was running barefoot up to that point. It finally ended one day when he threatened to pull my antenna down and I yelled back at him that if he really wanted to see TVI I would really show him what it was. It really is something to see what 1-Killowat of power will do after 9 solid hours of me playing the Gilligan's Isle theme over and over. Let's just say I never heard another word from the guy. EVER! Guess he figured my mouth on barefoot was far better. Now granted, This might have been wrong. But sometimes you can't win no matter what you do. |
Biged
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:20 am: |
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Cuddledear,
9 Solid hours!!!! Holey Cow!!! I hope you had a fan or two blowing on your equipment.(that didnt sound right did it?) Did you even unkey for any period of time to give your radio a break? Anyway, that was a good idea, slightly Illegal but none the less, a job well done. I used to live in a developement and had my A-99 in the tree beside my house and always bled through all my neighbors. But nobody said anything to me about it. I finally found out one day that 2 of my neighbors called the cable co. and the phone co.to see if they could do anything about it. I went and bought an expensive TVI filter but it didnt help.My neighbors were very patient and understanding about the whole deal. They even let me redo some of the cable ends and put filters behind each one of thier phones. But nothing was 100% effective. So what I eventually did was just stop talking so much and went to a smaller radio. From a TURBO to a Cobra 148. That helped alot. Anyhow, I have since built a house on 4 acres and my closest neighbor is about 200 feet away and apparently I dont bother anybody. I really lucked out on that. By the way, I work for the phone co. and can get inline filters fairly easy for this pourpose, I brought a bunch of them home to try them out on my phone. (The only people I bleed on now is our own phones)Only one of them in place did not work, but if I put about 5 of them inline, they worked real well. Just a little hint... |
Colt
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 10:35 am: |
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That's a good one, Cuddlebear!
Makes a feller get all inspired to write a song:
"Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale..
a tale of a-shootin' skip..
This is about how Cuddlebear..
he made his neighbor flip!
Irate was the mighty neighbor man
a grouchy guy for sure..
He had a fight right on the air
He had too many Coors'..
had too many Coors'.....
The airwaves started getting rough.
The Cuddlebear was tough!
When grouchy threatened "FCC"
"The Bear" said "Enough"!
The Bear said "Enough"!
Well after runnin' a killerwatt;
nine hours of "Gilligan's Isle"
Ole Cuddlebear...
his neighbor too..
they didn't fight
any more.....
Ole grouchy boy
figured he better keep his yap shuuut..
Now the Cuddlebear smiiiiiles!! |
Taz
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 3:12 pm: |
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I did that for about 15 hours to my neighbor, i offered to do everything for him. Then came 350 watts out of my imax with tip toe through the tulips. I had the cover off all my equipment, blew the dust out and then hooked up a big box fan fired it all up and 15 hours later after I woke up he wasnt even home! haha I ran him out of his own home! hhahahahahahAAAA
Hey why dont you send me some phone filters? |
Biged
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 3:28 pm: |
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Colt,
that was really good!!!!
Boy the way that cuddle played,
talks that made his tv fade,
before big watts we had it made,
those were the days.
And they knew who you were then,
we've been hooked since we were ten,
mister I could use another antenna, mine blew over again.
didnt need no stinkin amp,
we would talk till our hand would cramp,
gee my little radio was a champ,
those were the days!!! |
Cuddlebear
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 5:17 pm: |
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ROFLMAO!
OMG! you guy's made me laugh so hard I damn near wet the seat! hahahahaha I love it!
And yes, I did unkey every hour for a thirty minute cooldown session. However, I also had external fans going at full bore to cool the system. |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2002 - 8:32 pm: |
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ALL RIGHT NOW LISSEN
1) NEVER INTERFER WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS SET JUST DONT
2) IF YOU DO BEG HIM TO FORGIVE YOU AND YOU WILL GET OFF THE AIR AND STAY OFF JUST FOR HIM
3) CALL ME TO BE A EXPERT WITNESS AT YOUR SAINITY HEARING
4) REMEMBER TOMORROW IN APRIL FOOLS DAY ahahahahha
bruce .... |
MC
| | Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 5:08 am: |
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I tried the nine hour DEAL once didnt work for me got me one of them letters from my Honorable Senator and a FCC inspection. Whew good thing I heard about it the DAY before. I moved anyway and like was stated before I made a powerful enemy with a business in my moonrakers path something about x-tacy playing on there internal intercom throughout there building, lord knows I wouldnt have liked it either. |
maxwedge2
| | Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 3:26 pm: |
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About 10 years ago, a very good friend of mine had a problem with one of his neighbors every time he got on the radio. He was running legal power at 4 watts, no power microphone, grounded antenna and radio plus a Drake low pass filter that I gave him. He never bothered any other of the neighbors let alone his own TV's, stereo's etc, just this one person. The poor guy couldn't get on the radio without having the phone ringing and was getting sick and tired of this guys ranting and raving. He was accused even when he wasn't on the air. No amount of talk could convince him that the problem was with his old and worn out TV. He even added filters for the guy and changed the TV antenna cable and still nothing changed. He was on the verge of selling everything when one day he came up with an idea. He told he wife to get the lawn mower out and for her to grab the garden tools and take everything out to the front yard. He then got a tape recorder out with a recording of a business meeting that he just attended, keyed down the radio with the recorder going then disconected the telephones. He then went out to the front yard and started to mow the lawn while the rest of the family was doing other yard work. Sure enough, the guy came running accross the street yelling that "Your messing up my TV again" My friend replied, "Pardon Me, as you can see, I'm not on the radio" The guy ran back to his house then came back scratching his head saying it's still going on but I now see it's not you. after that, there were no more problems as a guy can't be in 2 places at once or can he? |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 10:07 pm: |
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max wedge, the drake goes on the neighbors t.v. not your radio. high pass for you low for him |
Taz
| | Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2002 - 10:09 pm: |
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good idea! |
Colt
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 12:26 am: |
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(Ahem)
Now, Tazzie ole boy, if the low pass filter is for the TV, why does Copper's sell a 10,000 watt low pass filter? |
Taz
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 1:17 am: |
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Colt look it up.
cb is a lower freq than his t.v. freq's.
so a high pass is for him. Bottom line.
Colt, dont call me tazzie boy. I dont need to hear it. Simply stop. |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 8:26 am: |
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colt... drake DID make a TV 300/HP filter for TV sets it was the matching filter for the TV 1000 LP if you had BOTH you had over 60 db of isolation between the cb set and the tv VERY efective but not cheep. GOOD one maxwedge i like that as a ham ive good a bunch of thoes stories myself you got to love thoes people. MC you MUST have REALY ticked someone off short of jaming police radios its near impossible to get the FCC to do anything... good show i guess you get our got the FCC off its A.. Award for today...hahaha
bruce |
Colt
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 5:25 pm: |
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Oh, OK! He want's a high pass filter so he will pass all those high, TV band harmonics, right? Silly me, I thought he'd want a low pass filter to pass the CB frequencies and attenuate the high band harmonics.
You still didn't answer my first question. If high pass filters are for the CB, why does Copper's sell 10,000 watt low pass filters?
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Jellybean
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 7:05 pm: |
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Hmmm, Lowpass goes on the radio, High pass goes on the tv. It's not hard, the connections on the two units make it hard to hook them up wrong.
I like it when the makers make it easy. |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 8:39 pm: |
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jellybean you got that right !!!!! |
BIGFOOT
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 9:47 pm: |
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got a variation to MAX WEDGE idea of a tape recorder.... tape a close by CB station for 10 - 20 minutes, then play IT back while YOU are in yard doing yard work..neighbor will hear other cb station voice coming over tv and stereo and NOT bother you since YOUR voice is not coming thorugh his tv and sees YOU out in yard |
707
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 9:54 pm: |
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Taz...think about it..a Filter is there to Stop things from going through.
A LOW pass filter will let the LOW stuff(CB band) go through and Filter out the HIGH stuff(harmonics)
A HIGH pass filter will let the HIGH stuff(TV) go through and Filter out the LOW stuff(CB band)
Make sense now? |
Taz
| | Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2002 - 11:24 pm: |
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The point I was trying to make is that the only filter I have seen that ever worked was the drake high pass filter.
I have the High pass to let high through.
He has low to let low through.
I didnt explain myself. And that is the only setup I have seen work worth anything. |
Maxwedge2
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 2:04 pm: |
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Taz, you are correct. It was indeed a high pass filter that I gave him to install behind his rig. That story reminded me of all the troubles my friend went through with his constantly complaining neighbor. The neighbor is still there and was one of the first to install a satellite dish in the neighborhood. The old and worn out TV finally gave up all together forcing him to buy a new system. Since the installation of the dish antenna and the purchase of the new TV, all is quiet in the neighborhood. Ironically, they are now the best of friends and go fishing together as well as going and watching together the Oakland A's play. Just goes to show you that most problems can be solved with a little patience and ingenuity. By the way, my friend is now an amateur and runs a TL 922A amplifier and not a ripple anyhere. |
Colt
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 3:46 pm: |
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Maxwedge said he gave his friend a Drake
*low pass* filter for his radio.
Taz said: "max wedge, the drake goes on the neighbors t.v. not your radio. high pass for you low for him".
BUSTED!
No amount of Clintonspeak can cover that! ;)
By the way, the only reason I got into it was not to act like a know-it-all. I just don't believe kids should publicly "correct" adults. It's just not proper, even when the adult is wrong. Maxwedge was not wrong, but that is beside the point. Even had he been wrong, if Taz is 14 (up past 11:00 on a school night?!??), he should have held his peace.
Kids need to respect their elders. |
bruce
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 11:17 pm: |
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Colt Taz has promest me he'll be good .... for what i dont know. |
Taz
| | Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 11:39 pm: |
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Well anyway colt, What I am saying to you is that is the only setup I have ever seen work.
He mentioned drake so I was telling him the way I set it up for myself and it worked. |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 7:02 pm: |
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The drake low /high pass combo is superb at killing tvi it even works on 6 meters THATS HOW GOOD IT IS.... YES THEY MAKE OR MADE A tv1000 lp for 6 meters cutoff is at 52 mhz... i have one |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 7:02 pm: |
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The drake low /high pass combo is superb at killing tvi it even works on 6 meters THATS HOW GOOD IT IS.... YES THEY MAKE OR MADE A tv1000 lp for 6 meters cutoff is at 52 mhz... i have one |
707
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 8:44 pm: |
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You guys are cracking me up. In case there is still any question...
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rf-filter.html
I hope nobody tries to run any significant power into those Hi Pass filters. |
Taz
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:08 pm: |
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Well, I dont always beleive in the math 707. For me its feild performance, I have to see for myself! |
707
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:21 pm: |
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Lets hope NASA doesn't switch to that philosophy. Cover yer head Bruce!!!!
j/k Taz. |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 10:30 pm: |
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the math is correct ... nice find 707 it explains them well |
