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Starface
Senior Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 1179
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 3:49 pm: | 
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This is a Multiband Ham Antenna.
HF-6M vertical antenna
Bands: 6m 10m 12m 15m 17m 20m 30m 40m and
75/80m
Transmit Frequency Range: 3.5 to 57MHz
Receive Frequency Range: 2.0 to 90MHz
Height -- 23'5"
Weight -- 7 lbs. 1 oz.
Wind Survival: 67mph
Transmit Power Rating: 250W SSB & 125W FM
Anyone ever use one of these?
What are yours Pros and Cons?
I Do like what I've read about it, and like the fact easy to assemble, requires no tuning or adjustments and VSWR is under 1.6:1 from 3.5-57MHz
Ok Posted Away Please!!
Thanks
STARFAİE
KI4NBE
CEF476
HAM181
CVC014
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3557
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 7:06 pm: |
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i've read about 1 million reviews on vertical multiband HF antennas, george. based on that alone....i am even more confused then when i started! while the manufacturers claims are sometimes amazing, the reviews generally seem to be completely opposite. i suppose you have to understand/realize that they are NOT optimal antennas for most (if any) of the bands they are claimed to cover, and, if you have NOTHING else to compare it to, they just may SEEM to be good. in that light, i've been using my maco v5/8, with NO TUNER, on 10-20 meters. SWR ranges from 1.5-¥:1. i've made quite a few contacts on my ic735 from mexico to carribbean to morocco to greece, & in between, on 12, 15, 17 & 20 that way. i have a local with a longwire strung across his backyard and an OLD 4 band cushcraft vertical. the signal strength of what he hears on an ft757 & longwire is quite a bit stronger then what i receive on my maco. which is ALSO stronger then on HIS multiband vertical. so, i spent $23 & got a g5rv jr. right now it's laying across the roof, with multilpe 'bends' & no tuner. the noise level has dropped way off, i hear 'pops & whistles & dings' & other noises that i didn't hear on the mismatched vertical. the bands seem MUCH MORE active then they did before-OR, was i just not HEARING them? my g5rv jr HEARS MORE then either his longwire OR his cushcraft vertical.
i am STILL thinking about a multiband vertical, mainly for better coverage in various directions then the north/south installation of my wire. BUT, then again, for another $23, i can run a 2nd g5rv jr east/west.
looking at the specs you wrote, 23 feet of antenna weighing 7lbs? will it REALLY survive 67 mph winds? does it NEED to be guyed in the middle? i know you're a bit from the coast, but is 67 mph winds at all 'common' in your area?
check the reviews on Eham. not instilling much confidence there! then, $400 for the comet, vs $23 for a wire....EXACTLY why i have a wire! |
Starface
Senior Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 1180
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 1:03 am: |
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Thanks for your input Pat.
Not knowing a lot about Ham antennas thats why I've been looking around.
I'm wanting an multiband to run with an Kenwood TS 2000.. I really confused on just what antenna I should use with this radio and get good reports on both TX-RX.
It really doesn't matter if its a Non-Tuning antenna or not as the radio has a auto-tuner built-in.
I was hopeing not to use a wire antenna but if those work best then I will, it's just I have never used a wire antenna and really don't know how to go about installing one.
As how high does one really need to be to get good TX-RX from it.
Should a wire antenna be mounted | - v or ^
I just like to have something I can use with all the bands I'm allowed to use on the Kenwood TS 2000
Now on The Comet CHA-250B 3 things kinda turn me away from it.
1. Cost, I really don't wanna pay $400.00 for an antenna.
2. It don't cover all the bands the TS 2000 has
ie 160m nor does it cover any VFH and/or UHF.
3. as you said, the Wind load, 67 MPH+ is a normal Thunderstorm here where I live not counting the 100+ winds during the summer hurricanes.
Maybe I should have asked members opinions on antennas to use with a Kenwood TS 2000 ?
STARFAİE
KI4NBE
CEF476
HAM181
CVC014
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Tech237
Moderator
Username: Tech237
Post Number: 730
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 8:51 am: |
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Starface,
Any antenna that you find that covers hf and VHF without tuning, pruning or some other form of adjustment is going to be a compromise.
Now for several years I have been using a B&W folded dipole with one end at 30ft and the other at 6ft. THis forms what is known as a Tilted Terminated Folded Dipole or T2FD. I also use an Antron A-99 on 15-11m. Sometimes the signal is better on the T2FD and other times on the Antron. COnditions change, polarization of a signal can change and I just find it best to have both a vertical and a horizontal wire antenna with a switch so I can select which one I am using quickly.
With the TS2000 I'd be inclined to go with apair of antennas for HF - one vertical and one horizontal, a Loop of some kind for 6m and a gain vertical for 2m with maybe (space permitting) a 3 or 4 element as well for 2m SSB.
Simon
Tech237
KD7IEB
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Starface
Senior Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 1183
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 11:13 am: |
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Thanks Simon,
I have a diamond 50X for 2m/70cm right now so that part is cover.
I'll look in to the others you posted for 6m and HF.
STARFAİE
KI4NBE
CEF476
HAM181
CVC014
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3558
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 12:19 pm: |
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george-adding to simon's reply, i have stacked loops for 6m, 2m & 70cm, taking up 12' of a 20' mast on my roof. it is very inconspicuous, compared to any beam at least, and really no more conspicuous then most of the multiband HF verticals out there. according to the builder, there's about 3dbi of gain for each band when stacked, so that's probably better then a wire, on vhf/uhf at least. i have a 3 element 6 meter beam that, at 18', didn't show ANY better signal strength on ANY signal i heard over a 2 month period then the stacked 6m loops. whenever i get around to beams, 6m will get something on the order of a 12' boom, 2m/70cm would go on 1 boom, above the 6m, so i could get quite a bit of gain out of the same or smaller footprint. that's not to say i haven't had SUPERB 6m DX results with a SINGLE loop, so i would NOT hesitate to recommend stacked loops!
back to HF...A99 & a tuner i have seen do wonders from 10-40(YES FORTY) meters, my g5rv jr(51' long) seems to be just fine on the same bands while LAYING ON MY ROOF, or if you have room, a regular g5rv(102' long), would get you 80m as well, & a g5rvm would get you 160m (204'), but knowing florida lots, you're probably stuck with the jr, & isotron makes antennas for individual bands that apparently perform 'ok', so maybe 1 for 160m.
also check 'mosely' antennas for the MINI-33-A WARC Mini Series, 5-band (28, 24, 21, 18, 14)
MINI33AWARC, 4 element compact beam, 6 foot boom, 17foot longest element. it uses traps, so GAIN lacks, but it DOES have some rejection side & back, i believe it's in the $400 range, but SMALLER then your sirio 4 element cb antenna!
so, $150 for a set of stacked 2m & 70cm loops, $140 for stacked 6m loops(or a bit more then 1/2 for singles of each), $174 for 160m isotron, ($110 for 80m isotron), and $24 for the g5rv jr or between $27-$57 for other versions.
$290 gets you a GOOD setup on 6m/2m/70cm, $174 gets you dedicated 160m antenna, $24 gets you on 3.5-30 mHz hoizontal, and/or vertical with an A99 for $50, so for around $500, you have what i think is a decent 'compromise'. of course, isotron makes individual antenna for each band, if you feel they work. while you're not going to have the signal of a BIG beam, you WILL get out. and your neighbors won't have a heart attack with these 'stealth' antennas. my yard is 50x200, with the house taking up 30' wide the space from 35'-85' back, & there are no trees in my backyard that would make installation of wire 'easy'; hence the reason it's laying on the roof for the moment. my v5/8 is the most obnoxious antenna up there, & (i don't think  ) it looks too bad.
final suggestion, go 'cheap', see where the 'action' is, or your friends hang out, use wire at 1st, then a 'real' or at least 'better' antenna for that band or couple of bands. in my case, i don't have room for serious metal, & i'd guess you might not either. |
Starface
Senior Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 6:25 pm: |
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Thanks again Pat.
I'm also going to be asking some of the Local Ham Members of our club and see what I come up with and even get they're help installing something, I do think thats my best way of going with this.
STARFAİE
KI4NBE
CEF476
HAM181
CVC014
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Goat373
Intermediate Member
Username: Goat373
Post Number: 336
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 8:05 pm: |
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since when is wire not a "real" antenna, just because you spend money on it dosent mean it works any better than what someone else has home brewed.
I have 20 retail antennas...10 and 6
i have wire on 20, wire on 80, and copper j-pole on 2-440.
my tuner takes care of everything inbetween on my wires...(di-pole on 20 and an inverted l on 80)
and i dare say i get out better than many a $500 setup in my area...with there fance store bought such and such.
"Every time a HAM spends money on a wire antenna, Marconi rolls over in his grave...."
Brian
CEF574
KI4LXH
"The more you learn...the more you realize how little you know"
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3559
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2007 - 10:25 pm: |
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i was implying a full sized beam as the 'real' antenna, brian. or, as compared to wire or any 'compromise' multiband antenna, wire or vertical. a tuner does not make an ANTENNA 'better' then it is. it just TRICKS the xmtr into THINKING it sees a load that matches its own impedance. IF you have a good enough tuner, you could probably trick a $10k ic7800 into seeing a 1:1 match into an inner tube. how far are those 100 watts going to 'talk'? NOW, take a 5 watt ic703, put it into a 'high gain' beam, & chances are, the qrp $500 radio will SMOKE the 7800. same for 'wire'. it WILL be resonant SOMEWHERE, the tuner won't be needed, & zero gain will be attained. on the other bands, you'll have loss, BUT, if you've noticed my excitement the past few weeks, you CAN get out. just imagine how well you could get out with an efficient antenna! yup, plenty of people around the world have done some, most or even ALL of their talking on wire, or some totally inefficient antenna. did that prevent them from having fun? absolutely not! i wanted an antenna as efficient as possible in the smallest space possible, but realized it ain't happening. so i have to compromise. i assume george is in the same boat, more or less, or else he wouldn't have asked. as i said to george, once i find a place i'm 'comfortable' with, i'll re-examine the wire, & look into something better. same with my 6m activities. 1 loop worked great, 2 works even better, & i found out a 3 el beam isn't worth the effort-if i want more efficiency.
i do agree, that it is more then possible that a $24 piece of wire gets out better then a $400 antenna-namely the cha-250b. and yes, i did build SEVERAL 6 meter loops, as well as a longwire. but, right now i need 8 or 9 36 hour days to do what needs to be done, so a $24 investment to save me some time & allow me to make a few calls while the paint dries, or the stove warms up the room or whatever is money well spent. heck, i'm talking with it laying on the roof, i haven't even had time to try to figure how to hang it anywhere!
we've done 6 & 11 brian, i'm waiting for more! have lacrosse games early sunday AM, then MORE from 1-9PM, i'll try to get on whichever CEF nets i can, 13 will be on in the mobile, & every opportunity i get i will be listening on 14.250 tomorrow. same goes for you george! only talked to you on 11m, & your 2m E skip contact last year to LI NY was about 50 miles east of me, & maybe just 10 from hank, so..... |
Starface
Senior Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 1:20 am: |
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Goat373
See this is way I'm asking about the ham antenna I posted over other ham antennas I'm not sure what to get to run with the Kenwood TS 2000
I'm so confused now as I've been told:
1. Use a Beam ....ok what kind that will cover 160-6m and even maybe have VHF & UHF bands on it?
2. Use a Vert Multiband
3. Use a long Wire
I just wanna get on some HF bands so bad so I have somewhere to make contacts and not stuck in CB land or 2 meters that I have now.
STARFAİE
KI4NBE
CEF476
HAM181
CVC014
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Unit199
Intermediate Member
Username: Unit199
Post Number: 449
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 4:41 am: |
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I have a Butternut HF6V that covers 10 thru 80 meters and my I-MAX 2000 receives better on 10 thru 40 meters than my HF6V. I wish I had not wasted the money on the HF6V.
HARVE
UNIT199
CEF210
CVC18
KB0YVK
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Kb5lpa
Intermediate Member
Username: Kb5lpa
Post Number: 230
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 10:11 am: |
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Starface,
To keep this post simple (I am basic, no frills so simple is just me) there is no do all, hear all, work all great antenna. Once an antenna is off the design frequency it becomes a compromise. Now there are multi band beams, wires, mobile antennas that will work and work well. Still there are compromises with even these antennas.
So...there is not a beam that will cover 160-10 plus uhf/vhf. If one is out there it would be such a monster that space would be huge to get it up and on the air. Simply, not a practical thing.
Multi band verticals are available. Butternut,Cushcraft, Gap, Hy-Gain, MFJ,Comet...all make an antenna that will work 80-10 meters (some even 6 and 2) but proceed with caution. Read reviews and take a look at what it takes to make them work effeciently. Yes they will work those bands mantioned but how well is the question.
Multi band wires are available. G5RV,Windoms,Zepps, Bowtie(fan) dipoles all will work multiple bands. Mostly depends how long and how high one can get them up and what tuner one uses. Certain wires work certain bands very well indeed but even they are resonant somewhere and the other frequencies are useable because of harmonic relationship plus the tuner is in line.
So what is the best antenna for multiband performance? That all depends on you and your point of view (read pocketbook). I have worked the world on a wire (G5RV Jr.) and an A-99. Do I have multi band performance...yes. Is it the best? In my situation, yes...for others no. So the circle is complete. There are ways to get multi band performance but it all comes down to you and your situation. If you have say 50 feet of tower or some sort of crank up tower then you can do wonders with almost anything you can get up that high. If you have limited space you will still be able to work the world you just have to be informed enough to find the best solution/compromise that will work for you. As for uhf/vhf there are tons of antennas for those frequencies out there. Read and search what you are looking for. Compromises exist but size is so much closer you can find designs that will do the deal for you.
After all is said and done, you will likely find that you will end up with multiple antennas to work what you are seeking.
Good luck,
KB5LPA |
Goat373
Intermediate Member
Username: Goat373
Post Number: 337
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 1:48 pm: |
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star face...here is waht i would do
Put up something for only 10 and 11...vertical
(yes, you can keep your beam too...but i will speek on that later)
put up a dipole for 20 meters...thats where alot of the daytime action is these days.
Put up an inverted L on 80(about 63 ft long total, up as high as you can get it, then the top leg sprouts off to the side.
oh, and something for 6 meters if you want it...loops work great.
now for your beam...you can keep it for 10/11...you can cut it up and re-align it for 6 meters...or you can do without(tuners do absolutely no good on beams...they may make a good match, but without the proper spacing and element length...its not a beam anymore...pattern prolly looks more like some funky flower.
after you have those antennas up...listen...i know you'll like 20...so thats ganna stay...and 80 is good if you have an emergencey(i know you like e-com) so check out 40 meters on the L....if you like it and you have room, put up a dipole for 40...no room...tune it on the L...the antenna is longer than it should be so not resonate...but its not much of a comprimise ither....same on 60 meters...
if you have an imax 2000, like me...its great on 10/11 12 and 15....NO TUNER with its measurements...its acctually a half wave on 15 meters...
use the 20 meter dipole for only 20 meters...
i tune 17 meters on my inverted L...its nearly a multiple of a wavelength long anyhow...so it works great and is hardly a comprimise
(oh, and i know antenna theory...I know that there are those of you out there that will tell me 'any non resonate antenna is a comprimise when tuned' and i aggree with that to a point...but as long as the antenna you are tuning up is longer than it should be...not shorter...you will never have anyproblems, tx or rx...thats just real life experiance on my part.
ps....i meant i had 2 retail antennas...not 20...lol
Brian
CEF574
KI4LXH
"The more you learn...the more you realize how little you know"
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Patzerozero
Senior Member
Username: Patzerozero
Post Number: 3560
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 4:53 pm: |
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i've seen the pics of the truck, brian, as well as base antennas, i WAS wondering where you were hiding so many |
Goat373
Intermediate Member
Username: Goat373
Post Number: 338
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 9:24 pm: |
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its these darn gittery fingers i tell ya...they keep hotting things when i tell them to stop is all...
but yes, if only you could come and look at what ive done as far as antennas on a very VERY small lot...
And BTW.. i now have 4 antennas on the truck
2 meters
10 meters
20 meters
and 60 meters...ha!!!Rolling porcupine
Brian
CEF574
KI4LXH
"The more you learn...the more you realize how little you know"
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Starface
Senior Member
Username: Starface
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 3:22 am: |
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I thank you all for the replys...
We have some 40+ years of hams in our club and Dixie and I do so much for our club that they are going to help us get set up and even help with the installing..
I still thank you all for the great responds and heres to hearing you all soon on the airwaves
73
STARFAİE
KI4NBE
CEF476
HAM181
CVC014
|
Kirk
Intermediate Member
Username: Kirk
Post Number: 333
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 5:52 pm: |
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I'll kick in my 2 cents also:
I use a TS-480HX and a TS-940SAT. My antennas are all switchable to this rig. They include:
- IMAX 2000 for 10/11 Meter
- Mosley Dipole (driven element from a Tri-Bander)for 10/15/20 meter
- GAP Titan Vertical (good on 20 meter and 40 meter)
- 80 Meter Wire Dipole
Each one of these has a different 'best band' use in my opinion and I rarely use a tuner since they are all resonant on a particular band. And I have a separate 2meter/70cm beam with a separate run of coax that runs into my VHF rig.
As someone else said above, I wouldn't use an "all in one" antenna. Do the best you can to use something that fits your situation. If you can't have a huge beam, use a wire dipole, vertical, whatever. Have FUN and don't get caught up in the 'this is a compromise' antenna thing too much. If it makes you happy and you can afford it and it works for you...go for it!!--73 |
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