| Author |
Message |
    
vernonott
| | Posted on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 1:56 pm: | 
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While cleaning out some of my junk yesterday I came across a rig I bought and used back in 1976.It's a small box with leads in and out so you could hook up your car radio and cb to the regular car antenna.I remember that it did work but didn't have long range,a couple miles at the most. |
bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 4:52 pm: |
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i would like you to know i am restoring my first cb radio a laf he-15 bought 1963 i got it working but now comes the time needed to clean up 40 years of deteration as for your radio if it is a 40 ch you can still use it if it is a 23 that you bought new you can still use it but you cannot sell it
bruce |
vernonott
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 9:52 am: |
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Now buy yourself a 1963 Corvette and install that 1963 radio in it and you're good to go. |
HONKY TONK MAN 593 OUTTA NC
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 9:40 pm: |
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you can sell it just not as new or if you are a company. just look on ebay youll see many! i had a cobra 139 23 channel and it was really sweet as my first sideband radio. ill take a 63 vette!!! |
bruce
| | Posted on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 10:26 pm: |
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WRONG you cannot sell any 23 ch cb radio they were outlawed for sale on jan 1 1976 i have a copy of this law and i have checked with the fcc it is valid as of 7-15-01 now if you had one like my 15 since it was new as long as you keep it it is ok with the fcc but thet would prefure you buy a 40 ch
bruce |
vernonott
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 8:22 am: |
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Gentlemen : That law was passed and enforced against wholesalers and retailers.An individual can sell anything ,23 channel radios included, to anyone ,anywhere,at any time. |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 9:21 pm: |
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WRONG i wrote gary at the fcc ( ghendric.fcc.gov ) and the law CLEARLY states ANY level including personal sales i have fought with ebay on this point but the law is very clear you cannot sell any 23 ch set Sorry you are not excluded i know this is some what silly but you can thank the DEALERS for this they did not want the 23 ch sets to cut into sales of the new 40 ch sets in 1977
bruce |
bruce
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 10:05 pm: |
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correction to e-mail address ghendric@fcc.gov |
707
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 11:25 pm: |
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Ebay has 23 ch sets for sale daily |
vernonott
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 10:12 am: |
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OK Bruce : I accept your and the Fcc's interpetation of that law.Any one interested in purchasing a 23 channel radio? |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 10:53 am: |
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yes and they ARE illegual ask gary |
vernonott
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 7:09 pm: |
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Why would I feel compelled to ask the FCC anything .All of their rules are in print.I would rather read them than to aggravate those half dozen federal employee's who are trying to enforce laws across fifty states. |
bruce
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 10:09 pm: |
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i did read them and my question to him was to confurm the fact that
1) the only valid type acceptance were 40 ch was there a exsemption for " classic " radios There is none but who would buy a 40 year old set to put on anyway?
2) to what level and in what way could ( this has nothing to do with cb ) vhf/uhf radios be modified or used on non ham frequencys with a license for that service answer was if it is not type accepted for that service you cannot ues it
3) to what exstent could "cb" liners ba addapted for ham radio use under current rules answer was no
since there seems to a fair amount of talk among hams as to what theses rules realy say i thought it would be nice to have something in writing from them and he was nice enough to respond to my letter with the answers i requested this had nothing to do with any one just to have the information for myself. But since there seems still be a lot of people who have there opinons as to what they realy say ill use his judgement |
Dutchman
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 11:31 pm: |
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Geez Bruce..get a life!!! Do you really think the feds will come knocking,asking for ....
"your papers please"...
on any 23 channel radio you "might " have in your posession????
I seriously doubt it...... |
bruce
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 9:22 am: |
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Realy? i have a life sadly because i work in public safety ( radio ) i have to have updates to changes in FCC rules and unlike some people i cannot depend on latreen lawyers for my information as for papers beleve what you want but if they ever do come knocking at my place i have my papers licenses and all i need to cover my rear. |
HAM CBer
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 1:01 pm: |
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Bruce:
It is not illegal for an individual to sell an unmodified from original type acceptance state 23 channel CB radio. Your friend at the FCC is mis-interpreting the rule section. That is PRECICELY why field personnel have been banned from interpreting CFR's as of 2 years ago. Please read the rule section from the latest issue CFR for yourself. You will be surprised.
The original intent of the rule section was to promote retailers and manufacturers to provide the new 40 channel radios. |
Oklahoma 428
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 3:47 pm: |
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Yeah Bruce just look at all the convicted 23 channel radio pushers on death row!! |
vernonott
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 4:55 pm: |
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Thank You Very Much ! |
BRUCE
| | Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 11:36 pm: |
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IM NOT GOING TO BEAT THIS TO DEATH BUT 95.603 THE CUT OFF IS SEPT 10 1976 AND I STILL DONT KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GETTING YOUR DATA I WENT ON THE CRF PAGES AND DID NOT FIND ANY CHANGE IN THIS LAW
THE LAW APPLYS TO ALL SELLERS EVEN YOU AGAIN WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT ONE EXCEPT AS A TOY? IF YOU FIND IT SEND ME A COPY TO
RADIO-DOCTOR@JUNO.COM |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 12:22 am: |
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Beat it to death? That dead horse was beaten, buried, dug up, and beaten again. Sheesh! |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 5:42 am: |
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To anonymous you are correct the horse is dead and my e-mail box is still empty. Back in the 1940's the FCC outlawed spark gap transmitters and modulated osc. type transmitters if today someone had one of thoes things for sale on ebay ill bet it would sell. This would be a violation of law today 60 years later since no provision was made to allow for sale of " classic " spark gaps". In 1976 the type acceptance laws for CB changed and all CB radios made befor that date were left behind to join the spark gap in radio history this has not been revoked nor modified. So my point to all of thoes simply was the 23 ch radio is not acceptable for use today like it or not. I would have liked to have seen the FCC be more clear to the public but since when have they ever been clear.
bruce |
vernonott
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 8:33 am: |
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Is there any possibility that this case can be closed.I respect the the laws of our government,just don't want them preached to me in such detail.73's |
Hammunition
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 10:50 am: |
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Bruce, adultery is still illegal in most states. I am still trying to recall that last prominent adultery arrest.
Unless you are selling a large amount of 23 channel CBs from a retail setting, you will never be prosecuted.
Let me clarify one thing that most citizens are unaware of. FEDERAL AGENTS (all of them) have no on view arrest powers. On view meaning, arresting someone for a violation occurring in their presence. Local and State Law enforcement DO have on view arrest powers but DO NOT enforce Federal Statutes unless directed by warrant. To arrest you, a federal agent must conduct an investigation, blue sheet it, find a AUSA who is willing to prosecute, and the AUSA sets the complaint before a grand jury for indictment. If an indictment is obtained, then an arrest and/or search warrant is issued. Then an arrest can be made, which is usually done with the help of local law enforcement because Federal Agents are strongly discouraged from making physical arrests except in cases of exigent circumstances.
Now, will a federal agent initiate a federal case against a citizen who sold his old 23 channel CB? Ill let you answer that one.
But, hang on to those credentials Bruce, because we all know about those pesky FCC spot checks. |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 4:29 pm: |
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Why do you think that way ? The question was and is legual or not i asked the one person who was so strongly beleving he had found the answer to put a copy in my email box now inforcement is another matter and that would be something that would be up to the FCC as for adultry isnt that a civil matter? Florida does not have a law that ive ever heard of
Remember if you violate FCC rules any license you have can be revoked and people who work in the trade cannot aford to loose them and the fcc has a history of pulling them if you are caught now if you have none then you have nothing to loose except the fine for selling non type excepted radios and that is 10000 per radio max |
Toid
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 6:31 pm: |
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Why bring up a rule about selling 23 channel radios? I have been to a National Mobile Shootout Competition in Florida a couple of years ago and what I saw would make your head spin. 1 guy had a setup in a van that was doing 60,000 watts. Another couple of mobiles were in the 40,000 to 50,000 watt area. If the FCC wanted to bust somebody all they have to do is show up at one of these WELL ADVERTISED events with a few Federal Marshalls. The FCC could care less about CB when they have much more important issues to take care of. |
bruce
| | Posted on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 9:21 pm: |
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no your problem is you did not advertise it well enough the fcc was at the tampa bay hamfest in dec of 2000 do a better job next time as for 60000 watts i used 900 watts to bounce signals off the moon on 144.200 so use of high power real dosnt impress me now if you ever break the land record of 10,000,000 miles per watt set by 2 hams a few years back THEN ill be impressed and so will they |
Toid
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 10:06 am: |
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The moral of my previous post was as follows for those who didn't understand: If the FCC hasn't busted a Mobile CB Competition event that involved over 5000 people and 3000 vehicles with amplifiers from 1000 to 60000 watts then they probably won't mess with Joe "Ordinary" CBer. Bruce, I did not run the event or compete. I heard about the event and went by to satisfy my curiosity. Trying to impress you is not on my list of things to do. |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 1:24 pm: |
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Toid understand me im not picking on you and if the FCC had known they would have busted a bunch of people The FCC is regulary showing up at ham fests looking for amps and illegual radios. Do you think that they would have passed up the chance to bust something like this no way. But that is not what i was talking about when everyone went balistic the fact is you cannot sell by law any 23 ch cb set even as a lone person i dont make laws i just brought this up a few days back the ones who question me i have asked to show where i am wrong see there is a attude today if you tell someone a lie long enough then i will become true CB is loaded with wrong information which is sometimes all the user has to go on in my work i deal with lives if something is done wrong someone could die this is why i tend to have a limited view on radio law. My offer still stands to anyone who beleves i am wrong on the 23 ch radios send me the FCC order revoking the public notice of Jan 1977 outlawing the sale. I never intended this to become a slug out over a small point but the desemination of correct information is importiant and i never expected even one response over this point.
bruce |
Josuha
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 3:26 pm: |
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How about people who collect the old tube rigs like Trams,Robyns etc..(Glow Bug here..)Lots of people still use them and they sound great, because of the "collecting hobby"..Are we supposed to trash a couple of thousand of dollars of equiptment? I think thats absurd. How about the Heathkits like the DX-40 with the VF-1 VFO with 11 meter selection along with 10, 20, 40 etc?..Trash them too? Lots of these rigs have collector value along with history behind them. I think not. |
vernonott
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 5:19 pm: |
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And the Saga continues.Enough to make you throw up. |
707
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 7:36 pm: |
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Ok Bruce...this is how the 95.603 reads...
"(c) Each CB transmitter (a transmitter that operates or is intended
to operate at a station authorized in the CB) must be certificated. No
CB transmitter certificated pursuant to an application filed prior to
September 10, 1976, shall be manufactured or marketed."
"Marketed" is a broad term, but in the context of the rules and regulations, would likely be interpreted as "commercially marketed", if the issue was presented, since it was preceded by "manufactured".
As far as I know(having been involved with CB for nearly 30 years), the FCC has never tried to meddle with public trading of used or vintage CB radio equipment. Unless you can cite a specific example of the FCC fining a private individual for selling or trading unmodified, legal output, 23 channel equipment, then I presume you are simply "trolling" as it is called in internet forums. |
707
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 7:57 pm: |
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10,000,000 miles per watt...over land? I doubt it....that would mean they circled the globe over 400 times with one watt. How did they know which of the 400 passes they were listening to? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 8:33 pm: |
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Bruce you need to find a good Federal job Such as the IRS so you can use an assumed name. Please look at what the LAW says and read the spirit and not the letter of it. Go to any Flea Mkrt and look at all the old classic 23s for sale and how many law enforcement people do you see there? I buy and sell 23s all the time and have yet to have anyone say a word to me. Get a real social problem to work on dude |
Hammunition
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 9:10 pm: |
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Bruce, I respect your mastery of citing law for us, but your comments reflect that you simply are good at citing. The fact that you know of no Florida law that addresses adultery reflects this. Adultery, in fact, IS a violation of Florida Criminal State Statute 798.01. I was simply making a comparison because I know there is no officer in Florida crazy enough to arrest someone for adultery. Even if it happened, no SAO in his right mind would file the case and attempt to prosecute. If you had ANY familiarity with law practice in general, you would know that the use of the term "marketed" in 95.603 is extremely ambiguous and in no way could be applied to a private sale between 2 radio afficionados. Your mispelling of "enforcement" and "adultery" alone indicates you arent in legal practice of any sort. The FCC targets people like Howard Stern and works cases that will gain them postive media coverage. No agent is going to make a career targeting private citizens selling each other a radio. But good luck on trying to scare your fellow DX'ers. Ive noticed that everyone, forum master included, disagrees with you. This might be a good time to bow out. |
bruce
| | Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2001 - 9:21 pm: |
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one final comment 707 THE REASON i inquired was exactly that does this mean ALL 23 ch sets at all levels the answer is yes. The realese ( jan 78 )is very plain it states at all levels even used and the seller like you or me they left no one out Josush if you read what THEY wrote yes all tube type cb radios no mater how nice cannot be returned to cb use As for old ham gear with 11 meters is is not covered by type acceptance and is leagul UNLESS at sometime the fcc has singled out that gear and except for liner amps i dont know of any. Guys i real thank all of you many took a great deal of time to fire back at me and if this wasnt such a good group i would have stoped several levels ago I did not write this thing i stumbled into it and it makes me wonder what else is out there that non of us knows about On final point the FCC holds us for our own radios not the tech who you might have had work on it Im done thanks to all of you feel free to check things out and always ask questions
bruce
radio-doctor@juno.com |
vernonott
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 8:41 am: |
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AGGGG--Well , I couldn't take it anymore.
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bruce
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 12:20 pm: |
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707 to answer the 10,000,000 the 2 people involved used .1Uw and covered a path of several hunderd miles on 1296 mhz one was a kf4 call in st petersburg that is how that was done also a old friend of mine used to run .05 watts on 2 meters and worked more than 300 miles with it many people have worked accross the alantic with .1 watt or less and last the explorer space craft runs about 6 watts and it is past pluto and still being heard il bet that is alot more than 10,000,000 miles per watt |
707
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2001 - 11:53 pm: |
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You posted:
"if you ever break the land record of 10,000,000 miles per watt"
I was simply interpreting your comment word for word and taking it at face value with no consideration for frequency, other possible meanings for "land"(i.e. a land bridge between here and Pluto) or calculation of potential coverage by extrapolation based on a much lower amount of power than what you stated as the level of wattage used to establish the benchmark record.
...did I just type that?? |
HAM CBer
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 12:06 am: |
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Nitpick, nitpick, nitpick. Sounds like a bunch of hams!! Oh, did I just type that??..... |
vernonott
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 7:49 am: |
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You wiseguys are way over my head.I'm just a old country boy who enjoys ratchet jawing on the CB every chance I get.Not to say there is anything wrong with calculation of potential. |
Hammunition
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 9:42 am: |
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I think 707 has sufficiently explained the facts and the reasons for your misinterpretations. This was a verbal boxing match, which 707 won by a blistering knockout. You are now back in the locker room still asking what round it is. I think its time to let it go.
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bruce
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 10:30 am: |
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all kidding aside there are some very serious QRP people out there who do things with very low power that i would never try. The best ive ever done was South America from Florida on 30 miliwatts and the only reason i did it was my final was blown so while i waited for a new part i looped a wire to the output coil getting about .03 watts and 6 opened to south america and i did make 2 contacts using that hook up. It can be done and it takes skill to make it work Ill stick to more user frendly levels |
707
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 3:20 pm: |
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QRP is the purest form of the amateur hobby, considering that regulations call for us to use the minimum amount of power necessary to make the contact. It's a lot of fun seeing who can be heard with the lowest amount of TPO, because it puts the emphasis on good feedline(unless you mount the transmitter at the feedpoint), a killer antenna system, and an equally impressive receive antenna and radio.
Just for fun sometime, try making a contact at your normal power, then coordinate with your contact and start lowering your ssb output until you reach a point where you drop out of his receive. You'll be surprised, if the frequency is otherwise clean, at just how little it takes to maintain communication. It's challenging with skip because of varying conditions, but it's just as interesting to do it with groundwave. You can easily get out 40-50 miles on a half watt PEP with a good antenna on 27MHz. It's no wonder that a few milliwatts CW can cross the Atlantic on the right band. |
Hammunition
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 3:24 pm: |
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Bruce, Let it go....... |
707
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 3:36 pm: |
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vernonott-
re: your initial post, I have seen a couple of vintage CB oddities on EBAY recently. It is a Granada 8-track CB converter, with a single channel(ch9) transceiver built into a 8-track cartridge case shaped thing, and a tape recorder type mic. I thought about grabbing one since they weren't getting any bids, but then realized I'd have to find an 8 track player to be able to use it...oh well. It was kind of cool.
It would be interesting to see how the designer planned to radiate the signal, since it appeared there was no actual antenna connector provided. |
vernonott
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 7:33 pm: |
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707: It has nothing to do with CB's ,but a few years ago I noticed two brand new Craig 8 track players at the local drug store in a glass showcase.I asked the owner about them and he said if you want both of them give me $20.00.I bought them and sold them the same day for $100.00.It's a shame he didn't have two old model Cobra 29's for $20.00. |
Oklahoma 428
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 10:28 pm: |
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Jesus T. Christ! Will you guys drop this thing and let this poor dead beaten horse rest in peace!? I'm gonna go fire up my old 23 channel and do some DXing...I might even sell it! |
